What Roster changes do you make if Marner doesn't waive?

57 Years No Cup

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I can’t tell if you’re being serious or not, but, if you are? Then holy f***ing shit dude.

Are you seriously suggesting that if Marner alone gets traded we’re automatically going to go back to the wilderness of missing the playoffs year after year?
You're replying to a poster that's been here for years and said he's had like 15 accounts, man. It's up to you if you take him seriously.

This site...

Oh buddy, pretend I'm talking slowly....

When the Leafs trade Marner (who is a little overpaid or will be on his next contract), let's say he's worth 9.5 in this league. Most people would in vacuum like him at that price. So if he was extended at 12 per, that's 3 million of deadish/unfavorable cap hit.

But Leafs Nation is waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy toooooooooooooo SMART to sign Marner, they just want the Cap Space.

Yeah cap space can do anything...... dddddddddddddeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrr

So trade Mitch get a meh return because Leafs fans just need to bash the perception of his value because tantrum and MLSE will immediately spend all that cap room Mitch and expiring deals frees up to over pay multiple 'whomever is available on the market' to multiple year UFA overpay summer contracts.

So when Taven is signed to 4-6 per x 6 years and Pesche the same and Debrusk. That's a lot of dead cap room/unfavorable cap room between the three.


Leafs Nation is begging to run Mitch out of town and bring back Komisarek, Beachemin, Finger, Blake, Kubina, Clarkson, I'll include Zaistev although it was an extension.


This summer is the beginning of the end of being competitive. I told you first, remember that, gimme my flowers when you see what I already know.
Please do tell what your 14 previous account names were. I'm all ears.
 
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ULF_55

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He means that if Nylander isn't scoring, he's a net negative, and that covers his Games 4 and 5.

Nylander has the same problems he's always had; unless he's really feeling it, defense is a suggestion, not a requirement with him. I have a strong gut feeling that he's going to be the core member that gives Berube the hardest time, and he'll be the one the Leafs can't move because of that idiotic contract they just gave him.

And if Matthews isn't scoring then assists don't get handed out.
 

Kiwi

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Mar 5, 2016
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If they won't waive I'm trying to move out money to give myself more options

Kampf, Jarnkrok, Timmins, Liljegren and letting Bertuzzi walk

I'm keeping Domi and talking to Lyubushkin to see what he wants

I'm giving young guys like Cowan, Minten, Grebyonkin and Niemela every opportunity to make the team

I'm going to get one high end defenseman on the UFA market and a center

I'm also looking around for some young guys who are out of favor I can trade for in the center and defensive positions (Fabbro? Glass?)
 
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Gabriel426

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Jun 30, 2015
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If both MM and JT won't waive.
I would sign players to ONE year deals and sell them all at TDL to get picks.
Also let the kids play more and develop them to play a heavier, more competitive and North-South style.
Then use all the cap space in the 2025 off season to sign players who fit with the rest of the team.
 
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thewave

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Jun 17, 2011
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If both MM and JT won't waive.
I would sign players to ONE year deals and sell them all at TDL to get picks.
Also let the kids play more and develop them to play a heavier, more competitive and North-South style.
Then use all the cap space in the 2025 off season to sign players who fit with the rest of the team.

Like this idea. It can work too. Sometimes those players gel and you can go deep. Dallass did it once 15 yrs ago or something. They called it team of misfits or something dumb.
 

Gabriel426

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Jun 30, 2015
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Like this idea. It can work too. Sometimes those players gel and you can go deep. Dallass did it once 15 yrs ago or something. They called it team of misfits or something dumb.
The thing is, they could had done it this year. As i don't think trading Bert and Domi and not trading for Boosh and Edmundson will cause them to miss playoffs, as there is no way this team won't finish ahead of the Caps.
Knies-AM-MM
McMann-JT-Willie
Robbie-Holmberg-Calle
Dewar-Kampf-Revo
 
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Punch Drunk Loov

Thought Viktor Loov was going to be a guy
Dec 6, 2011
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If he doesn't waive it doesn't need to get too ugly. But you could take him off the powerplay and advise we'd like to see long term players grow there. This is a big year for Mitch. Help us and we'll help you. Waive and provide a list. Otherwise, sorry, we need to focus on developing the long term team and someone else is getting the powerplay slot. Oh you want more points for your 100M contract? Waive and provide a list
 

PromisedLand

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We need a hockey chuck norris to help save us and lead us to the promised land :laugh:

GOGB_qIXYAAxCug
 

Gabriel426

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Jun 30, 2015
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If he doesn't waive it doesn't need to get too ugly. But you could take him off the powerplay and advise we'd like to see long term players grow there. This is a big year for Mitch. Help us and we'll help you. Waive and provide a list. Otherwise, sorry, we need to focus on developing the long term team and someone else is getting the powerplay slot. Oh you want more points for your 100M contract? Waive and provide a list
I know a lot of MM fans kept saying he is not going anywhere....
To me, if MM stays, he is betting on himself again to have a good playoffs in order to get that 100mil contract. He done it this playoffs and failed.
Not sure would he has the confidence to bet on himself again. More importantly, don't think his camp wants to bet on himself again.
Unlike Willie, even if MM starts great in Oct and just top 3 in pts by Jan, I doubt the Leafs will give him the extension until after playoffs. Bc if MM plays great in the regular season, his camp is not going ask for 11.5mil, they will be asking for 12.5-13mil. Even if he wins Conn Symthe, how much would teams willing to pay, 13.5mil, 14mil or 15mil? At most 14mil. And from Leafs standpoint, thats only a mil more than extending him in Jan or Feb. They will gladly take that risk to make sure MM performs in the playoffs.
 
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QJo

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If he doesn't waive it doesn't need to get too ugly. But you could take him off the powerplay and advise we'd like to see long term players grow there. This is a big year for Mitch. Help us and we'll help you. Waive and provide a list. Otherwise, sorry, we need to focus on developing the long term team and someone else is getting the powerplay slot. Oh you want more points for your 100M contract? Waive and provide a list

No matter how reasonable you make his demotion seem you are ultimately saying the coach should not use the game plan he thinks is most likely to win as leverage against Marner. Coaches won't sabotage their team or their own record like that. He has his own personal interest at stake too.
Tanking is a GM's job. If the coach is in on it your culture will plummet. This is the same, if the coach is leveraging a guy for the GM/organization he'll lose the room quickly.
Unless you are saying demoting him gives us a better chance to win and then nothing else needs to be said. He would likely want out if he wasn't depended on.

Tldr;
Try convincing a coach, whose livelihood depends on that demotion being a winning formula though.
 

NVious

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Dec 20, 2022
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If JT and Marner won't waive sit them.

That said, I doubt they even ask them and if they say no the Leafs 100% don't have the balls to f*** them like they f***ed us.

I guess sign Pesce/Montour or Zadorov if that doesn't work and hope for the best.

Anybody that has any expectations of this core if they are still here is beyond delusional, there's nothing to be done if everyone of the core 4 are still here, they will never get it done.
 

LEAFANFORLIFE23

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Jun 17, 2010
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If he doesn't waive it doesn't need to get too ugly. But you could take him off the powerplay and advise we'd like to see long term players grow there. This is a big year for Mitch. Help us and we'll help you. Waive and provide a list. Otherwise, sorry, we need to focus on developing the long term team and someone else is getting the powerplay slot. Oh you want more points for your 100M contract? Waive and provide a list

The problem with this plan is the Leafs are in win now mode, they aren't looking to develop players right now.
 

fahad203

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Oct 3, 2009
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I know it's super cool now to s*** on Mitchell

Some of you need to get your head together. He was again close to 100 points season. That's a lot of production to replace
There's a reason why Auston almost scored 70 goals this year. Mitch played a big role in that

He also kills penalties

Sure his playoff performance wasn't great, but his lack of production is overblown. He setup Edmundsson on a breakaway, he set him Eddy again the game before

Also noting he was coming off a high sprained ankle injury before the playoffs. He also scored 14 points in 11 games last year. Led all forwards

Management is going to look at all that. They are not going to let him go just for picks. Give your head a shake

If there's a deal to be had, sure yes. But it won't be for prospects or picks. It won't be clear up cap space, there are 4 other players leaving that's going to give us capspace


Bertuzzi
Brodie
Samsonov

That's almost 15 million dollars right there
 
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TheGreenTBer

Generational Lesson Learner
Apr 30, 2021
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I know it's super cool now to s*** on Mitchell

Some of you need to get your head together. He was again close to 100 points season. That's a lot of production to replace
There's a reason why Auston almost scored 70 goals this year. Mitch played a big role in that

He also kills penalties

Sure his playoff performance wasn't great, but his lack of production is overblown. He setup Edmundsson on a breakaway, he set him Eddy again the game before

Also noting he was coming off a high sprained ankle injury before the playoffs. He also scored 14 points in 11 games last year. Led all forwards

Management is going to look at all that. They are not going to let him go just for picks. Give your head a shake

If there's a deal to be had, sure yes. But it won't be for prospects or picks. It won't be clear up cap space, there are 4 other players leaving that's going to give us capspace


Bertuzzi
Brodie
Samsonov

That's almost 15 million dollars right there
Those players leaving will need to be replaced and their replacements cost dollars and cap space.

They won't trade Marner for picks, true. But no one can absorb Marner's salary without sending salary back in return so that is a moot point.

Marner could score 216 points in the regular season and it still wouldn't mean shit to me and many others. The regular season is a play-in tournament to find teams eligible for the real season. That's it. No team with this heinous level of playoff ineptitude should get any pride from the play-in tournament.
 

Evilhomer

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Oct 10, 2019
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Well that certainly explains my wife's internet history

I know it's super cool now to s*** on Mitchell

Some of you need to get your head together. He was again close to 100 points season. That's a lot of production to replace
There's a reason why Auston almost scored 70 goals this year. Mitch played a big role in that

He also kills penalties

Sure his playoff performance wasn't great, but his lack of production is overblown. He setup Edmundsson on a breakaway, he set him Eddy again the game before

Also noting he was coming off a high sprained ankle injury before the playoffs. He also scored 14 points in 11 games last year. Led all forwards

Management is going to look at all that. They are not going to let him go just for picks. Give your head a shake

If there's a deal to be had, sure yes. But it won't be for prospects or picks. It won't be clear up cap space, there are 4 other players leaving that's going to give us capspace


Bertuzzi
Brodie
Samsonov

That's almost 15 million dollars right there
Anyone who thinks the Leafs are going to trade Marner for picks and prospects is going to be disappointed. If he is traded, it will be for a reasonably equivalent player, just at a different position (defense or goalie). The Leafs didn't just hire Berube to toss away a season. They will do everything they can to try to win next season.
 
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fahad203

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Those players leaving will need to be replaced and their replacements cost dollars and cap space.

They won't trade Marner for picks, true. But no one can absorb Marner's salary without sending salary back in return so that is a moot point.

Marner could score 216 points in the regular season and it still wouldn't mean shit to me and many others. The regular season is a play-in tournament to find teams eligible for the real season. That's it. No team with this heinous level of playoff ineptitude should get any pride from the play-in tournament.

Then how are you ignoring the fact that he was our leading forward last year?

Weird because he actually has more points per game in playoffs than any other forwards with the leafs
Marner .87 (Playing 2 more games than Matthews)
Matthews .87
Nylander .78

I didn't even include Tavares. He has never had a point per game playoff series with the leafs

Unlike all those players, Marner kills penalties in playoffs

Those are not nothing. If you are going to trade him for picks, yet keep Tavares contract, that's true poor management if I ever saw one

More like than not, I think you are going to see Marner stay with the Leafs and leafs will try to move Tavares
 

Antropovsky

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Jun 2, 2007
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Then how are you ignoring the fact that he was our leading forward last year?

Weird because he actually has more points per game in playoffs than any other forwards with the leafs
Marner .87 (Playing 2 more games than Matthews)
Matthews .87
Nylander .78

I didn't even include Tavares. He has never had a point per game playoff series with the leafs

Unlike all those players, Marner kills penalties in playoffs

Those are not nothing. If you are going to trade him for picks, yet keep Tavares contract, that's true poor management if I ever saw one

More like than not, I think you are going to see Marner stay with the Leafs and leafs will try to move Tavares
Pretty sure Leafs pk has been pretty bad in the playoffs. Also...assists and goals aren't measured the same. 11 goals in 57 games is putrid. Morgan Reilly has the same amount of goals as Marner in the same amount of games.

Its really all about who the play drivers are. Nugent Hopkins and Hyman are out producing all Leafs. Would you trade Matthews or Nylander straight up for these two? Never.

They are good players, but the play driving is their linemates, Mcdavid and Draisaitl.

How much less effective would Mcdavid be or Draisaitl be if Hyman was standing on the blueline looking yo sauce passes to them all game? Or if Hyman refused to go to the front of the net, or refused to take a hit to get a loose puck in the corner?

Look what happened this year when Marner was taken away from Matthews and Nylander.... how many points did he manage vs them? 7 games, 1 g 2 a 3 points.

He managed 1 goal... with 14 mins left in the 3rd, while down 3-0.

He managed 2 assists... one was a faceoff win loose puck that he tapped back to the defenseman.

Yup... what a 11 million dollar performance.
 
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TheGreenTBer

Generational Lesson Learner
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Then how are you ignoring the fact that he was our leading forward last year?

Weird because he actually has more points per game in playoffs than any other forwards with the leafs
Marner .87 (Playing 2 more games than Matthews)
Matthews .87
Nylander .78

I didn't even include Tavares. He has never had a point per game playoff series with the leafs

Unlike all those players, Marner kills penalties in playoffs

Those are not nothing. If you are going to trade him for picks, yet keep Tavares contract, that's true poor management if I ever saw one

More like than not, I think you are going to see Marner stay with the Leafs and leafs will try to move Tavares
I've said it many times: Marner is not alone when it comes to playoff struggles. Anyone who thinks this is all on Marner is simply wrong.

But you're ignoring the monkey in the room: he's the only movable member of the Core 4. Tavares is unmovable and the other two Four Horsemen of Losing are signed long term with no movement clauses. The core needs to change and he's the only one that might be changeable this year, so to some extent he's a scapegoat. It's warranted IMO, others may disagree.
 

Budz

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Jan 28, 2013
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Or just say… Mitch, show us you care and sign for 9.5. If not - GTFO.
 

ULF_55

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I know it's super cool now to s*** on Mitchell

Some of you need to get your head together. He was again close to 100 points season. That's a lot of production to replace
There's a reason why Auston almost scored 70 goals this year. Mitch played a big role in that

He also kills penalties

Sure his playoff performance wasn't great, but his lack of production is overblown. He setup Edmundsson on a breakaway, he set him Eddy again the game before

Also noting he was coming off a high sprained ankle injury before the playoffs. He also scored 14 points in 11 games last year. Led all forwards

Management is going to look at all that. They are not going to let him go just for picks. Give your head a shake

If there's a deal to be had, sure yes. But it won't be for prospects or picks. It won't be clear up cap space, there are 4 other players leaving that's going to give us capspace


Bertuzzi
Brodie
Samsonov

That's almost 15 million dollars right there

Hopefully, they use the freed up space to try and land one impact defender.

Forward improvement can come from within.

Their big ticket signings for 2023-2024 were pretty mediocre.

Take the 8.5 used on the two forwards and see if you can get a real top 3 defender.
An option take 7.5 of that and get a Lindholm.
 
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notDatsyuk

Registered User
Jul 20, 2018
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He means that if Nylander isn't scoring, he's a net negative, and that covers his Games 4 and 5.

Nylander has the same problems he's always had; unless he's really feeling it, defense is a suggestion, not a requirement with him. I have a strong gut feeling that he's going to be the core member that gives Berube the hardest time, and he'll be the one the Leafs can't move because of that idiotic contract they just gave him.
Yet only Gregor was in for fewer goals allowed, only Boosh, Bert, Mo, and Domi were on for more goals for, and no forward had a better +/-.

He's certainly overpaid, thanks to Dubas' incompetence, but not by anywhere near as much as Marner and Tavares.
 
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Jimmy Firecracker

They Fired Sheldon!
Mar 30, 2010
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Fantasy GM-ing aside, I feel people are too down on this team, not without good reason mind you, but still. I think people are underrating the impact having a legitimate coach will have for this group. Even if Marner, and by extension Tavares, don’t waive their NMCs it’s not the end of the world. Worst case we have one more season of a 90+ point winger and a 60-70 point centre who’s good at faceoffs. If the team fails again it’s only one more season with these two. Mitch will f*** off and Tavares will either do the same or re-sign at a heavy discount.

Let’s say the least enticing option happens and Marner does return, as this thread posits. Even after re-signing a few RFAs (Dewar, maybe Robertson, maybe Liljegren) there’s a ton of money to play with to upgrade the team. This team can radically transform and greatly improve the defence by signing two of Roy, Pesce, Tanev, Skjei, or Zadorov. This can be done with Brodie, Samsonov, Bertuzzi, Domi, and Klingberg coming off the books.

We'd still lack that proven elite #1G people pine for but those goalies don't grow on trees and when teams get them they hold on to them. Our only option in this scenario where Mitch doesn't waive (and even if he did I wouldn't deal him for a goalie) is to pray Woll can be that guy and remain healthy long enough for that to matter. And if he can't signing a guy like Brossoit to platoon with him would be massive, and a transformed defence could insulate any goalie faults and carry the team through at least a couple of rounds. We've seen that with Colorado recently and despite the legend of 2019 Jordan Binnington, Berube and the Blues did something similar. Binnington was clutch but he wasn't a world-beater that spring. He was solid and the Blues defence was great at protecting him.

Now, I personally want to keep both Domi and Bertuzzi because I value their offensive output and their shitassery. I like having an in your face, hyper-aggressive forward group and those two were and can be big parts of that. Both players still fit the mold of what Treliving and Berube want in players, but if we have to lose one (likely Bertuzzi) to make room for two defensemen instead of just one I'm on board for that as well. I will say I would much prefer them, or hell even just one of them, to Kampf and Jarnkrok, who each have in-house replacements ready to go and are both too passive and prone to disappearing in the playoffs. Treliving inherited Jarnkrok and he jumped the gun signing Kampf when O'Reilly spurned us and he panic signed a familiar centre who Keefe no doubt overrated in his talks with him.

The impact Berube will have cannot be understated, and the opportunity to revamp our backend the way Treliving envisions it will not be missed, regardless of Mitch coming back or not. This team is also in line for a continued youth movement. Knies will be a sophomore, Robertson could potentially return and we know he has a finishing touch. Minten could make the team and he looked strong last year in camp. Cowan just got done dominating the OHL and could seriously challenge. Niemela made great strides in the AHL, and Cade Webber and Joseph Quillan are both intriguing NCAA grads. Woll has a clear path to being the starter and he has shown signs of being elite.

I do think we need to prepare for the potential return of the "Core Four" as it were, with two guys obviously not going anywhere, and two with NMCs who don't seem all that eager to go. It'll be frustrating, but it's not a death sentence, especially if Tree makes the moves I expect him to. Or hell maybe I'm too much of an optimist and we'll get more of the same next year, I dunno. I have to have hope otherwise why am I watching?
 
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