Prospect Info: Wild Prospect Thread 2023-2024

[Digitalbooya]

I just don't think you can call Firstov a selfish prick (understand that you did not do this, speaking in general terms) for doing what's best for him and his career, as these guys only have a finite number of years to make enough money to live comfortably for the rest of their lives, and not call Guerin a selfish prick for trying to strong arm him into making less money with a higher cost of living on the other side of the world away from his family.

You forgot the word ENTITLED. Self centered ENTITLED prick.

Because he thinks the Wild organization owes him NHL time because he decided to grace them with his presence. As evidenced by him quitting TWICE in less than 20 AHL games because they wouldn’t just gift him NHL time.

He’d be in the bottom 6 of the NHL right now if he had any semblance of fortitude as a player. He had the inside track BEFORE Khusnutdinov or Ohgren were here. He might be better than Khusnutdinov. We will never know because he wouldn’t stick around long enough to figure it out

Guerin didn’t try to strong arm him. Just blatant mischaracterization of the situation. He gave Firstov an opportunity to set himself up to be the first call up to the NHL and he bounced after 1 game in 22-23. He would have gotten a chance too if he stuck around. If you’ll recall, that’s the year we had to trade for Nyquist, Johansson, Sundqvist, and Reaves because our wingers sucked and we had injuries to guys like Kaprizov, Hartman and Foligno.

Personally, I don’t think he did what was best for himself career wise if the goal was to make the NHL and get a bag (as you described with the finite number of years to make money). He did the exact opposite.

 

[thestonedkoala]

Personally, I don’t think he did what was best for himself career wise if the goal was to make the NHL and get a bag (as you described with the finite number of years to make money). He did the exact opposite.

I mean why did Yurov sign an extension in the KHL if going to the AHL was the best route to make it to the NHL? Why is Guerin so hellbent on proving his point to Firstov that he should have been in the AHL because he went the college route instead of staying in the KHL?

Also you seem to be taking this really personally. I don't think any of us really are invested in this other than having a discussion in the off-season while things are slow news wise for Minnesota.

 

[Minnewildsota]

I mean why did Yurov sign an extension in the KHL if going to the AHL was the best route to make it to the NHL? Why is Guerin so hellbent on proving his point to Firstov that he should have been in the AHL because he went the college route instead of staying in the KHL?

Also you seem to be taking this really personally. I don't think any of us really are invested in this other than having a discussion in the off-season while things are slow news wise for Minnesota.

Yurov and Firstov are not the same. Firstov was already over here and signed to an AHL contract. Yurov has been in Russia the whole time under KHL contracts.

 

[57special]

You forgot the word ENTITLED. Self centered ENTITLED prick.

Because he thinks the Wild organization owes him NHL time because he decided to grace them with his presence. As evidenced by him quitting TWICE in less than 20 AHL games because they wouldn’t just gift him NHL time.

He’d be in the bottom 6 of the NHL right now if he had any semblance of fortitude as a player. He had the inside track BEFORE Khusnutdinov or Ohgren were here. He might be better than Khusnutdinov. We will never know because he wouldn’t stick around long enough to figure it out

Guerin didn’t try to strong arm him. Just blatant mischaracterization of the situation. He gave Firstov an opportunity to set himself up to be the first call up to the NHL and he bounced after 1 game in 22-23. He would have gotten a chance too if he stuck around. If you’ll recall, that’s the year we had to trade for Nyquist, Johansson, Sundqvist, and Reaves because our wingers sucked and we had injuries to guys like Kaprizov, Hartman and Foligno.

Personally, I don’t think he did what was best for himself career wise if the goal was to make the NHL and get a bag (as you described with the finite number of years to make money). He did the exact opposite.

I dig the righteous anger in this post.

 

[57special]

I mean why did Yurov sign an extension in the KHL if going to the AHL was the best route to make it to the NHL? Why is Guerin so hellbent on proving his point to Firstov that he should have been in the AHL because he went the college route instead of staying in the KHL?

Also you seem to be taking this really personally. I don't think any of us really are invested in this other than having a discussion in the off-season while things are slow news wise for Minnesota.

$$$. They get paid more in the KHL than in the AHL. Also, unlike many Northern Euros who are taught English in school and speak it very well, Russians are not nearly as conversant. Going to a place like Des Moines over a place in Russia is an easy choice for them. Throw in being closer to family, and it's easy to see why the KHL is preferred to the AHL for Russian players.

For the Wild, they would prefer that a player is in the AHL, as the player is playing under their system, and is a short drive away. On top of that, they can call said prospect up for NHL games during the season. I also think that the AHL can be better for talented prospects, as it gives the big team an up close and personal look at them, and allows them to get NHL TOI sooner than if they are in the KHL.

I have some slight reservations about the AHL as a development league, but it is getting better in terms of the cheap physicality that it used to have that would eat up young prospects. Like the NHL, it's changing to more of a skill league, just a bit slower.

 

[Digitalbooya]

I mean why did Yurov sign an extension in the KHL if going to the AHL was the best route to make it to the NHL? Why is Guerin so hellbent on proving his point to Firstov that he should have been in the AHL because he went the college route instead of staying in the KHL?

Also you seem to be taking this really personally. I don't think any of us really are invested in this other than having a discussion in the off-season while things are slow news wise for Minnesota.

Why did Firstov sign here if he was just going to bolt to the KHL after one minor league game?

The issue that people are just not getting is that going to the KHL is not the problem. It’s how he went about that decision and pissing the organization off that is the problem. When you actually understand the opposing argument, then your argument falls apart.

I’m just fiery because people are being blatantly ignorant and rewriting history.

 

[thestonedkoala]

Why did Firstov sign here if he was just going to bolt to the KHL after one minor league game?

I think he needed to sign since he was drafted in the ushl/college and he was leaving college.

The issue that people are just not getting is that going to the KHL is not the problem. It’s how he went about that decision and pissing the organization off that is the problem. When you actually understand the opposing argument, then your argument falls apart.

And how did he do that? I don't think we ever got the full story. We also don't know much about the background of how events go down.

 

[57special]

I think he needed to sign since he was drafted in the ushl/college and he was leaving college.

Look, he changed his mind. Nothing wrong with that, even though he went about it in a way that isn't going to endear you to the Wild organization. What, to me, is jank, is him coming over this year after a middling year in the KHL, and saying he wants a NHL spot, or he wants out. That's drawing a line in the sand that Guerin was rightfully happy to erase. Firstov just isn't that talented to be gifted a spot, and what's more, failed to impress his future employers with his attitude.

 

[Wabit]

$$$. They get paid more in the KHL than in the AHL. Also, unlike many Northern Euros who are taught English in school and speak it very well, Russians are not nearly as conversant. Going to a place like Des Moines over a place in Russia is an easy choice for them. Throw in being closer to family, and it's easy to see why the KHL is preferred to the AHL for Russian players.

For the Wild, they would prefer that a player is in the AHL, as the player is playing under their system, and is a short drive away. On top of that, they can call said prospect up for NHL games during the season. I also think that the AHL can be better for talented prospects, as it gives the big team an up close and personal look at them, and allows them to get NHL TOI sooner than if they are in the KHL.

I have some slight reservations about the AHL as a development league, but it is getting better in terms of the cheap physicality that it used to have that would eat up young prospects. Like the NHL, it's changing to more of a skill league, just a bit slower.

The AHL is a very good developmental league. It's where the bottom half of the roster/depth and the occasional gem comes from. The top of the roster NHL players aren't there for very long (season) and it's mostly just as a transition period type of thing.

The Wild GMs (CF and BG) are just bad at caring enough to build a quality team for prospects to develop in a competitive environment.

Really Dewar, Duhaime, and Shaw are the only wins from the AHL team has had in recent memory. Going back a littler further you could add in Soucy and Seeler and that covers the entire time the team has been in Iowa and MN draft picks.

 

[thestonedkoala]

Nothing wrong with that, even though he went about it in a way that isn't going to endear you to the Wild organization.

Reading more into this, it seems like the Wild were fine with him going to the KHL hence the loan out. There are also hints that Army had issues with Russian players as well. No evidence other than some scuttlebutt from what I heard. So there might be some clashes with the coach.

What, to me, is jank, is him coming over this year after a middling year in the KHL, and saying he wants a NHL spot, or he wants out.

1) it wasn't a middling year. He actually progressed nicely. Better than Khusnutdinov. 2) that's speculation that Russo and others have thrown out there that he thought he'd get a spot. Who knows. 3) being terminated was a surprised by a lot of people. I think Minnesota wanted to open up a roster spot and Firstov was low on the totem pole. There are rumors they want to bring in Petrovesky.

I don't think...other than Russo and others in the media speculating, which I reported, said he wanted a roster spot. It was probably an a to b to c sort of thinking about the roster move.

That's drawing a line in the sand that Guerin was rightfully happy to erase. Firstov just isn't that talented to be gifted a spot, and what's more, failed to impress his future employers with his attitude.

If you read a recent article, Firstov was happy to be back and with Minnesota. I just don't see how Khusnutdinov, who played on a more talented team for most of the year, isn't getting the flak Firstov is...especially when you consider Firstov had a pretty damn good rookie season and built on that. I think fans are adding to the criticism of Firstov saying he isn't talented to add to the justification to release him. It's okay to say that Firstov has talent but his attitude and his behavior was the reason why he was released. Same with McBain.

Really Dewar, Duhaime, and Shaw are the only wins from the AHL team has had in recent memory. Going back a littler further you could add in Soucy and Seeler and that covers the entire time the team has been in Iowa and MN draft picks.

Tuch and Rossi as well.

 

[Saga of the Elk]

Tuch and Rossi as well.

I think 1st rounders making the NHL after some AHL time should be a given, not a "win." Longer-shots like Soucy (a guy who I thought had the physical tools but not the mental game) and Dewar is a credit to the development team. But as Wabit notes, it's overall a poor record of drafting, team-building and individual development.

 

[Wabit]

Tuch and Rossi as well.

Tuch (less than a full season) still falls in the not much time in the AHL for me. Kunin had some AHL time, but some of that was due to injury/recovery time. Rossi as a top-10 pick needing 2 full AHL seasons is more of a failure of development than a success.

Regardless I expect 1st rounders (top-20 at least) to be in the NHL sooner rather than later.

Goalies fall into their own category.

 

[thestonedkoala]

Tuch (less than a full season) still falls in the not much time in the AHL for me. Kunin had some AHL time, but some of that was due to injury/recovery time. Rossi as a top-10 pick needing 2 full AHL seasons is more of a failure of development than a success.

Regardless I expect 1st rounders (top-20 at least) to be in the NHL sooner rather than later.

Goalies fall into their own category.

Fair.

Oh and Shaw is another one and Sturm.

But yeah the record is pretty poor.

 

[P10p]

Reading more into this, it seems like the Wild were fine with him going to the KHL hence the loan out. There are also hints that Army had issues with Russian players as well. No evidence other than some scuttlebutt from what I heard. So there might be some clashes with the coach.


1) it wasn't a middling year. He actually progressed nicely. Better than Khusnutdinov. 2) that's speculation that Russo and others have thrown out there that he thought he'd get a spot. Who knows. 3) being terminated was a surprised by a lot of people. I think Minnesota wanted to open up a roster spot and Firstov was low on the totem pole. There are rumors they want to bring in Petrovesky.

I don't think...other than Russo and others in the media speculating, which I reported, said he wanted a roster spot. It was probably an a to b to c sort of thinking about the roster move.



If you read a recent article, Firstov was happy to be back and with Minnesota. I just don't see how Khusnutdinov, who played on a more talented team for most of the year, isn't getting the flak Firstov is...especially when you consider Firstov had a pretty damn good rookie season and built on that. I think fans are adding to the criticism of Firstov saying he isn't talented to add to the justification to release him. It's okay to say that Firstov has talent but his attitude and his behavior was the reason why he was released. Same with McBain.


Tuch and Rossi as well.

This post and your last post are laden with "I think"s or "I heard"s. You're not basing anything off of real fact you're just creating a narrative and running with it. How many games outside of North America have you actually seen of Firstov?

 

[Wabit]

Fair.

Oh and Shaw is another one and Sturm.

But yeah the record is pretty poor.

Sturm was found money as a FA out of college, not a drafted player. He only spent a season in the AHL.

 

[Minnewildsota]

Reading more into this, it seems like the Wild were fine with him going to the KHL hence the loan out. There are also hints that Army had issues with Russian players as well. No evidence other than some scuttlebutt from what I heard. So there might be some clashes with the coach.


1) it wasn't a middling year. He actually progressed nicely. Better than Khusnutdinov. 2) that's speculation that Russo and others have thrown out there that he thought he'd get a spot. Who knows. 3) being terminated was a surprised by a lot of people. I think Minnesota wanted to open up a roster spot and Firstov was low on the totem pole. There are rumors they want to bring in Petrovesky.

I don't think...other than Russo and others in the media speculating, which I reported, said he wanted a roster spot. It was probably an a to b to c sort of thinking about the roster move.



If you read a recent article, Firstov was happy to be back and with Minnesota. I just don't see how Khusnutdinov, who played on a more talented team for most of the year, isn't getting the flak Firstov is...especially when you consider Firstov had a pretty damn good rookie season and built on that. I think fans are adding to the criticism of Firstov saying he isn't talented to add to the justification to release him. It's okay to say that Firstov has talent but his attitude and his behavior was the reason why he was released. Same with McBain.


Tuch and Rossi as well.

The whole argument is speculation, on both sides

And yes, it was a middling year. Again, he was roughly .5ppg, he wasn't lighting the word on fire. He was simply average. He came over to Iowa and was... average to below average. But yes, he should be gifted NHL time.

Hell, he was benched for a few games in Iowa because he (supposedly) neglected the defensive side of the game. He's not scoring enough to neglect defense.

You keep comparing him to Khuts, but it's not a 1 to 1 situation. they don't play the same position, Khuts never abandoned Iowa to go play in Russia, etc.

Sturm was found money as a FA out of college, not a drafted player. He only spent a season in the AHL.

Honestly, does that really matter. They acquired the player. They developed him, to an extent. That would be a win for Iowa.
Though, it does help their draft record.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Tuch (less than a full season) still falls in the not much time in the AHL for me. Kunin had some AHL time, but some of that was due to injury/recovery time. Rossi as a top-10 pick needing 2 full AHL seasons is more of a failure of development than a success.

Regardless I expect 1st rounders (top-20 at least) to be in the NHL sooner rather than later.

Goalies fall into their own category.

I wonder if something came up with Rossi that might've altered his timeline.

 

[Wabit]

Honestly, does that really matter. They acquired the player. They developed him, to an extent. That would be a win for Iowa.
Though, it does help their draft record.

55 games in Iowa. I still see it as a transition year more than the AHL doing a whole lot to develop.

Maybe I should give the AHL more credit here? I do think Sturm would have been on the same track with most other organizations.

I will note that it was under Fenton built AHL teams where most of the guys that turned into anything spent most of their AHL time.

I wonder if something came up with Rossi that might've altered his timeline.

He didn't take offseason training seriously until after his 2nd year in the AHL... I put it more on the player than the AHL team (who gave him every opportunity to success during the season).

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

He didn't take offseason training seriously until after his 2nd year in the AHL... I put it more on the player than the AHL team (who gave him every opportunity to success during the season).

Probably not true.

 

[north21]

All this for a guy who couldn't crack .5 ppg in the ahl, must be summer.

 

[57special]

The AHL is a very good developmental league. It's where the bottom half of the roster/depth and the occasional gem comes from. The top of the roster NHL players aren't there for very long (season) and it's mostly just as a transition period type of thing.

The Wild GMs (CF and BG) are just bad at caring enough to build a quality team for prospects to develop in a competitive environment.

Really Dewar, Duhaime, and Shaw are the only wins from the AHL team has had in recent memory. Going back a littler further you could add in Soucy and Seeler and that covers the entire time the team has been in Iowa and MN draft picks.

Rossi spent two seasons in the AHL, and Boldy went there after two years in college. Wallstedt is there right now. All three were/are top level prospects.

A big part of the reason that Iowa had a bad year last year is that the big club took an entire line Shaw, Lettierri, Luchinni, and their captain, Mermis for much of the season. On top of that, Milne and Bankier were out for large parts of the season. Throw in that some of their best prospects(Ohgren, Yurov, Marat, Heidt) were in a completely different league and you will get the potential for a losing season. Looking at an AHL team's point total and saying that they don't know how to develop players w/o taking into account all of the other factors is simplistic, and inaccurate.

 

[thestonedkoala]

f*** this. I am not going to continue debating someone who's only stance is nuh uh you're wrong. Never seen them change their stance on anything and all they do is argue with everyone who doesn't hold their same view.

 

[thestonedkoala]

A big part of the reason that Iowa had a bad year last year is that the big club took an entire line Shaw, Lettierri, Luchinni, and their captain, Mermis for much of the season. On top of that, Milne and Bankier were out for large parts of the season. Throw in that some of their best prospects(Ohgren, Yurov, Marat, Heidt) were in a completely different league and you will get the potential for a losing season. Looking at an AHL team's point total and saying that they don't know how to develop players w/o taking into account all of the other factors is simplistic, and inaccurate.

Walker and Beckman are both in the AHL. It's not like they don't have some experience. They also had Petan for a good chunk of the season. And Fog...whatever his name is.

I do think they relied too heavily on a young defense and should have signed a veteran. Getting Butcher helped them but to some extent O'Rourke and Lambos should have been better.

 

[Wasted Talent]

Didn't Firstov have to clear waivers first for the contract termination? Looks like no one else wanted him either.

I'm seeing some parallels to Menell, where some fans (me included) felt like we lost a piece with potential for nothing. In reality he just unceremoniously ended up in Russia (and even became a Russian citizen)

 

[Wabit]

Rossi spent two seasons in the AHL, and Boldy went there after two years in college. Wallstedt is there right now. All three were/are top level prospects.

A big part of the reason that Iowa had a bad year last year is that the big club took an entire line Shaw, Lettierri, Luchinni, and their captain, Mermis for much of the season. On top of that, Milne and Bankier were out for large parts of the season. Throw in that some of their best prospects(Ohgren, Yurov, Marat, Heidt) were in a completely different league and you will get the potential for a losing season. Looking at an AHL team's point total and saying that they don't know how to develop players w/o taking into account all of the other factors is simplistic, and inaccurate.

Shaw wasn't even a part of the equation for me. He wouldn't have been there at all if it wasn't for his injury/rehab from the Playoffs the season before.

Losing Mermis, and the L's shouldn't sink any AHL season. The AHL team is going to lose a FWD for most of the season and a d-man for about half the season to the NHL due to callups anyways. The team's cap situation kept them from running a full NHL roster and that pushed one of the FWDs from the pressbox to the AHL instead.

Boldy spent 14 games after his college season (he probably should have bene on the NHL roster) then another 10 due to injury/recovery the next season. Rossi took a year longer than he should have to get to the NHL.

Wallstedt is a goalie, and they are a different track just due to lack of opportunity. He's also the only reason they weren't dead last in the league by a lot.

The rest of the AHL faces similar things. Callups, injuries, best prospects not being available, etc. Not many teams can afford to overcook their prospects due to the cap being flat for years.

The Wild Farm system had from recent drafts to work with:
2019- 2nd and a 3rd (sent another 2nd to the KHL)
2020- 2nd and a 3rd
2021- 2 x 1st and a 3rd
2022-3rd

This isn't a team that is barren of high(ish) picks playing for them. It's the lack of surrounding these picks with quality vet players. It's bad drafting to spend most of these picks on 3LD and 2G (not even including the cost of them trading up to pick some of them).

This isn't just a 1 off, shit happens, bad year for Iowa; it's the continuation of a multi year trend. If Rossi had stuck in the NHL the first time (as planned) that AHL team doesn't squeak in to the Qualifying round of the Playoffs.

GMBG even acknowledged this at the end of the season. He's gone cheap with AHL vets (2-way deals and little guaranteed money) so they choose other teams where they make more money.

The ECHL team has been even more of a tire fire than the AHL team. The Wild farm system has the check engine light on but it's only popping codes for O2 sensors so the light can be ignored because the car still starts and stops fine.