Roster Thread (2023-2024 Season)

[Irie]

The seats should be the first things that get replaced, IMO. I am sure Terry would not want to spend 41 games sitting in many of the seats in the arena because they are so worn out.

That is really sad, really embarrassing, and flat out unacceptable.

I caught a couple of Sharks games in December when I was down south, and that arena is now over 30 years old, but it is maintained and it feels clean and updated, but they do regular maintenance projects every few years.

It is crazy to me that a pro arena could be in such terrible shape like KBC in the USA.

 

[Dingo44]

You just pointed out that they did not want to invest in KBC until the new Bills stadium deal was done. That is Pegula being unwilling to do much needed upkeep to KBC over the past number of years. It has turned KBC into an old, rundown building.

New scoreboard among projects Buffalo Sabres are planning for KeyBank Center

Fans attending Buffalo Sabres games and other arena events are going to see immediate differences this season with upgrades in food and beverage, both in products and point-of-sale technology, and bigger changes are on the horizon for 2024.

buffalonews.com

Phrasing it such that a big scoreboard like other arena's have will be 'a ‘Terry aesthetic’ thing' and 'Ultimately, he’ll decide what he likes and how much he wants to spend. These things aren’t cheap.' sounds like they are planning on going the lower cost route as opposed to trying to actually make KBC an up to date arena that will provide a high end fan experience.

There's a big difference between spending a few million on a hockey player and putting up a few hundred million on arena upgrades. A complete modernization of the arena will require at least $300 - $400 million dollars. That's going to take a lot of planning, negotiating with city, county, and state leaders, getting different plans and options for each, final renderings, etc. No one just opens up their checkbook and says "just get everything all at once and the best options and I'll pay for it all". That's being realistic - not cheap.

 

[Irie]

It would be new if they get good at identifying valuable possession forwards that they can acquire in trade. Artturi Lehkonen comes to mind. People knew. But not Sabre people.

I think it partially comes down to lottery teams like Buffalo are in a weird place when it comes to TDL adds.

Their 1st rnd picks are too valuable to move for depth guys, and it is a tough sell to move promising young talent when everything you are building for revolves around the future, and you are trading for UFAs that may bolt in the off-season.

Does moving Strbak and a second for a rental that you may not be able to re-sign really make sense? (That would sorta be the cost Colorado paid).

Or course, it also doesn't help that Adams has used a ton of high picks on tiny wingers which never have any value until they are legitimate top six players in the league. When stockpiling assets, drafting players that aren't going to have much trade value may not be the wisest move Kevyn.

 

[sabremike]

There's a big difference between spending a few million on a hockey player and putting up a few hundred million on arena upgrades. A complete modernization of the arena will require at least $300 - $400 million dollars. That's going to take a lot of planning, negotiating with city, county, and state leaders, getting different plans and options for each, final renderings, etc. No one just opens up their checkbook and says "just get everything all at once and the best options and I'll pay for it all". That's being realistic - not cheap.

They've known KBC is a rotting shithole dump that needed massive renovations since the early 2010's so why has everyone involved just had their thumbs stuck up their asses for nearly a decade and a half?

 

[Chainshot]

I was expecting a blue tarp

Given Terry's bent, the Lavoy Finicum Memorial Tarp seems in order.

 

[Chainshot]

I think it partially comes down to lottery teams like Buffalo are in a weird place when it comes to TDL adds.

Their 1st rnd picks are too valuable to move for depth guys, and it is a tough sell to move promising young talent when everything you are building for revolves around the future, and you are trading for UFAs that may bolt in the off-season.

Does moving Strbak and a second for a rental that you may not be able to re-sign really make sense? (That would sorta be the cost Colorado paid).

Or course, it also doesn't help that Adams has used a ton of high picks on tiny wingers which never have any value until they are legitimate top six players in the league. When stockpiling assets, drafting players that aren't going to have much trade value may not be the wisest move Kevyn.

More like Vancouver being able to jump on the Hronek deal last deadline - an actual hockey trade is rare but it's possible. The place they seem stuck is being unwilling to identify fit and make a deal for the player. There is too much Regier-ian wanting to win the deal or just acting as though participating in the process somehow mollifies fans or even players.

Agreed on stocking the system with dinky offensive wingers. They have to strike a better balance.

 

[Irie]

More like Vancouver being able to jump on the Hronek deal last deadline - an actual hockey trade is rare but it's possible. The place they seem stuck is being unwilling to identify fit and make a deal for the player. There is too much Regier-ian wanting to win the deal or just acting as though participating in the process somehow mollifies fans or even players.

Agreed on stocking the system with dinky offensive wingers. They have to strike a better balance.

The Thing Vancouver had that made them different was expiring vets with value that they could parlay into moveable draft capital. By moving Horvat, they picked up what they assumed would be a pick outside of the lottery (not sure if there were protections on that pick TBH), and it allowed them to make a move while keeping their own pick (Willander).

In a couple of years, Buffalo could be in that position, by moving a guy like Tuch to a bubble team, but there is still a ton of risk in a move like that, because they are ultimately losing a pretty great piece in the process.

 

[Chainshot]

The Thing Vancouver had that made them different was expiring vets with value that they could parlay into moveable draft capital. By moving Horvat, they picked up what they assumed would be a pick outside of the lottery (not sure if there were protections on that pick TBH), and it allowed them to make a move while keeping their own pick (Willander).

In a couple of years, Buffalo could be in that position, by moving a guy like Tuch to a bubble team, but there is still a ton of risk in a move like that, because they are ultimately losing a pretty great piece in the process.

Both Hronek and Sandin were had with moves made to ship off pending UFAs for talent. Someone like Siegenthaler was moved due to the Caps needing cap space is also what I was thinking about. But that also implies a team has a solid idea of what to target and finds a beneficial player via scouting - I'm not sure Buffalo is equipped to handle that task.

 

[Faceboner]

The only name on there that even remotely interests me would be Laughton as that #3C we need......but that's even a bit of a stretch.

He has been bad

 

[TehDoak]

There's a big difference between spending a few million on a hockey player and putting up a few hundred million on arena upgrades. A complete modernization of the arena will require at least $300 - $400 million dollars. That's going to take a lot of planning, negotiating with city, county, and state leaders, getting different plans and options for each, final renderings, etc. No one just opens up their checkbook and says "just get everything all at once and the best options and I'll pay for it all". That's being realistic - not cheap.

That is the cost of a new arena in a non urban area. I'm very curious where you get your math.

My napkin math is:

at $1000/seat installed, that's 19M for the entire arena.

A quick google shows me the new Jumbo tron in TML was 17M.

I could see it being 50-60M for a refurbishment, but 300-400M they could build a whole new arena, or at least most of one. It wouldn't be the T-mobile center, but that is significantly more than the Penguins/Devils new arenas.

 

[Chainshot]

The only name on there that even remotely interests me would be Laughton as that #3C we need......but that's even a bit of a stretch.

There wasn't much fire around Hronek or Sandin moving last year and both were more like actual hockey trades. It's possible those sort of deals might be had but we're not likely to hear much until they are broken as happening.

 

[Chainshot]

That is the cost of a new arena in a non urban area. I'm very curious where you get your math.

My napkin math is:

at $1000/seat installed, that's 19M for the entire arena.

A quick google shows me the new Jumbo tron in TML was 17M.

I could see it being 50-60M for a refurbishment, but 300-400M they could build a whole new arena, or at least most of one. It wouldn't be the T-mobile center, but that is significantly more than the Penguins/Devils new arenas.

I wonder which local installer unions and city councilmen need to be paid off. That's going to push costs for the skid grease and bribes/kickbacks to do an ultimately shoddy job.

 

[Irie]

Both Hronek and Sandin were had with moves made to ship off pending UFAs for talent. Someone like Siegenthaler was moved due to the Caps needing cap space is also what I was thinking about. But that also implies a team has a solid idea of what to target and finds a beneficial player via scouting - I'm not sure Buffalo is equipped to handle that task.

I agree, but Adams already traded all of their established trade assets, and he really only returned Tuch(who was mostly the injured cap dump in that trade and the Sabres lucked out that he broke out like he did).

Sandin is a good example. It is hard to justify moving a lottery pick for the player he was before the trade, as the value isn't there and it is bad business. Until they are a playoff team, their firsts are different level assets.

It is also easy to focus on the handful of trades made the past few seasons that were home runs, and say, "why can't our guy make similar deals?", but we are ignoring the dozens of moves that flopped spectacularly around the league in that scenario. The reality is that sometimes good trades require both good scouting and some luck.

My position is that if your team is playing shitty team hockey, no Sandin or Hronek is going to come in and look good. We are always going to get the Sabres version of Montour and not the Florida version until there is real coaching to this squad.

 

[Zman5778]

There wasn't much fire around Hronek or Sandin moving last year and both were more like actual hockey trades. It's possible those sort of deals might be had but we're not likely to hear much until they are broken as happening.

And frankly if their names would have come up, I would have recommended we pass on either. I thought Sandin was busting for sure and Hronek never once impressed me in my viewings.

I probably would have been apoplectic had we moved a first for either.

Shows how much I know.

 

[Chainshot]

I agree, but Adams already traded all of their established trade assets, and he really only returned Tuch(who was mostly the injured cap dump in that trade and the Sabres lucked out that he broke out like he did).

Sandin is a good example. It is hard to justify moving a lottery pick for the player he was before the trade, as the value isn't there and it is bad business. Until they are a playoff team, their firsts are different level assets.

It is also easy to focus on the handful of trades made the past few seasons that were home runs, and say, "why can't our guy make similar deals?", but we are ignoring the dozens of moves that flopped spectacularly around the league in that scenario. The reality is that sometimes good trades require both good scouting and some luck.

My position is that if your team is playing shitty team hockey, no Sandin or Hronek is going to come in and look good. We are always going to get the Sabres version of Montour and not the Florida version until there is real coaching to this squad.

There aren't many deadline deals that are actual hockey trades is the point. People keep posting about deadline rentals and yet there are a couple every year where teams make astute moves. There are opportunities every year.

And yes, this team has a tremendous deficit in terms of pro scouting and also the belief that they can acquire someone to perform flies in the face of the comments about not wanting to block prospects. The part unsaid is how often the prospects, even the blue chippers, don't hit the mark and the team is left waiting. Adaptive teams make moves to help in the near term and then adapt to shift cap and resources later. Most seem to have faith that their scouting departments can find talent as later picks or UDFA's to continue to percolate up into the lineup as the lineup solidifies. Buffalo is stuck in a mindset that they don't trust their scouts nor do they trust themselves to move some of their prospects - that's based on watching Adams comments regarding the deals he has said he's tried to be involved in, the rumored ask, and their lack of action.

And yes, it requires some luck. And some of that luck is going to be allowing someone who might not be one of their absolute high-end draft picks to play in something other than Chuck Nevitt time with plugs for linemates or partners.

 

[Irie]

There aren't many deadline deals that are actual hockey trades is the point. People keep posting about deadline rentals and yet there are a couple every year where teams make astute moves. There are opportunities every year.

And yes, this team has a tremendous deficit in terms of pro scouting and also the belief that they can acquire someone to perform flies in the face of the comments about not wanting to block prospects. The part unsaid is how often the prospects, even the blue chippers, don't hit the mark and the team is left waiting. Adaptive teams make moves to help in the near term and then adapt to shift cap and resources later. Most seem to have faith that their scouting departments can find talent as later picks or UDFA's to continue to percolate up into the lineup as the lineup solidifies. Buffalo is stuck in a mindset that they don't trust their scouts nor do they trust themselves to move some of their prospects - that's based on watching Adams comments regarding the deals he has said he's tried to be involved in, the rumored ask, and their lack of action.

And yes, it requires some luck. And some of that luck is going to be allowing someone who might not be one of their absolute high-end draft picks to play in something other than Chuck Nevitt time with plugs for linemates or partners.

Agreed, and I have posted much of the same sentiment over the recent past.

The thing that bothers me is the cap situation and the proposed deals that bring in another long-term 8-10M without plans to address the cap going forward.

Adams has made a couple of really bad signings (not bad in a vacuum, but terrible in regards to team cap situation before Skinner comes off the books) that have this team in a very precarious situation next off-season when Levi, Johnson, Quinn, and Peterka all need new deals. Any deal has to be viewed with future cap in mind, which I think Adams has tied his own hands here.

Almost any large move will require a large contract going out.

 

[Jim Bob]

 

[BananaSquad]

Both should have been gone a long time ago. Okposo getting re-signed after his long term contract was up and even being named captain is why this franchise continues to be a joke.

 

[Ace]

Pretty great reply to the last one.

I’m just thinking about how inactive this GM has been…and now most of the currency that moves is off the board...because we have sat on a pile of it already. Can you be negatively productive? We’re going to find out!

 

[Tatanka]

Agreed, and I have posted much of the same sentiment over the recent past.

The thing that bothers me is the cap situation and the proposed deals that bring in another long-term 8-10M without plans to address the cap going forward.

Adams has made a couple of really bad signings (not bad in a vacuum, but terrible in regards to team cap situation before Skinner comes off the books) that have this team in a very precarious situation next off-season when Levi, Johnson, Quinn, and Peterka all need new deals. Any deal has to be viewed with future cap in mind, which I think Adams has tied his own hands here.

Almost any large move will require a large contract going out.

The contracts he signed do not have trade protection. They are easy to move if you offer the right incentive. Thompson Cozens and Power would have plenty of suitors. The cap isn’t an issue unless you have the Skinner situation where he dictates where he wants to go if at all. If you trade a future for a 6/7 million contrct player whomis good, you move someone. That simple. I also think showing you are willing to move underperforming assets, looking at you Vic, for cap reasons adds the internal competition this teams lacks. I see no reward for good play in terms of toi and deployments and no punishment for bad play. Just constant talk of “trying to get so and so going.” The cap is not an issue for teams outside the playoffs for 13 years. You have no one who has demonstrated a value that can’t be replaced.

 

[Jim Bob]

 

[MarkusKetterer]

I was expecting a blue tarp

I have no idea why it put my response in your quoted post, but whatever

 

[MarkusKetterer]

The logo is accurate to how the team plays

 

[OkimLom]

I sure as hell would hope our owner would be more frustrated than the guy that is responsible for the current product on the ice and lack of moves to help improve the roster. I’m supposed to accept that he’s just as frustrated as Adams? They both can pound salt.

 

[Mattilaus]

I sure as hell would hope our owner would be more frustrated than the guy that is responsible for the current product on the ice and lack of moves to help improve the roster. I’m supposed to accept that he’s just as frustrated as Adams? They both can pound salt.

No he's right, he is just as frustrated as Adams....which is not at all.