Buffalo Bills Bills (6-3) v. Browns (3-6), 11/20 1:00

[tsujimoto74]

Continued from here

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[Mike McDermott]

After some time to reflect:

1) Josh needs to go back to taking what is given to him and focus on seeing all options. When he did that early in the game was when things were clicking. I think he gets too much a “high” from the big plays.
2) Coaching choices left a lot to be desired.
3) I know a lot of them was when Mitch was out but center-quarterback ball transfer has left a lot to be desired. That needs to be fixed
4) We absolutely have to take advantage of the next two opponents and go into NE on a winning streak and get our first division win.
5) Please for the love of god fix the issues now and don’t let them carry into December/January.

 

[Montag DP]

Allen must be fighting through an injury, right? He hasn't been himself since the second half of that Green Bay game. At this point I'm just hoping for us to make the playoffs and get healthy and on a roll at the right time.

 

[Ace]

We lost to the Vikings because the NFL analytics model is fundamentally flawed.

McDermott made the right call based on the information they used. It has a fatal flaw quantifying when and how points are scored in the NFL.

 

[sabresfan129103]

Allen must be fighting through an injury, right? He hasn't been himself since the second half of that Green Bay game. At this point I'm just hoping for us to make the playoffs and get healthy and on a roll at the right time.

I said the same thing to a buddy of mine. I wonder if something else is bothering him other than his elbow because he hasn't looked right since that game.

 

[Zman5778]

Terrible call just now in the night game. Herbert running a la Allen, gets hit into the path of an oncoming defender......accidental hit to the head ensues and defender gets ejected.

Go figure it's Torbert and crew.

 

[Ace]

I’m going to repeat this for the people in the back...if they kick the fg to go up 13 they win three different times.

the analytics are wrong. They’re factoring in things that have nothing to do with end of game scoring. When teams are forced to score…scoring goes way up.

 

[kirby11]

After some time to reflect:

1) Josh needs to go back to taking what is given to him and focus on seeing all options. When he did that early in the game was when things were clicking. I think he gets too much a “high” from the big plays.
2) Coaching choices left a lot to be desired.
3) I know a lot of them was when Mitch was out but center-quarterback ball transfer has left a lot to be desired. That needs to be fixed
4) We absolutely have to take advantage of the next two opponents and go into NE on a winning streak and get our first division win.
5) Please for the love of god fix the issues now and don’t let them carry into December/January.

IIRC, someone on offense said over the summer that Dorsey’s offense was go, go, go, be aggressive, attack defenses, etc. I wonder if Josh has internalized that mindset too much lately. He’s not full on chaos Josh, but he seems to be hunting for big plays too often.

Also, can we please find ways to get Hines, Cook, Knox, Shakir, etc. involved moving forward? Relying on Josh and Diggs as their only playmakers is clearly not sustainable

I’m going to repeat this for the people in the back...if they kick the fg to go up 13 they win three different times.

the analytics are wrong. They’re factoring in things that have nothing to do with end of game scoring. When teams are forced to score…scoring goes way up.

Psychologically I also wonder about the effects of not only getting zilch out of a drive where you picked up 2 third and longs, but the other team then having pretty good field position off a turnover

 

[Ace]

IIRC, someone on offense said over the summer that Dorsey’s offense was go, go, go, be aggressive, attack defenses, etc. I wonder if Josh has internalized that mindset too much lately. He’s not full on chaos Josh, but he seems to be hunting for big plays too often.

Also, can we please find ways to get Hines, Cook, Knox, Shakir, etc. involved moving forward? Relying on Josh and Diggs as their only playmakers is clearly not sustainable


Psychologically I also wonder about the effects of not only getting zilch out of a drive where you picked up 2 third and longs, but the other team then having pretty good field position off a turnover

I mean…what happened was basically the worst case scenario. If they blew the play the opponent should have started at the 8. But we’ve actually seen this before. Baltimore did it against us.

the same thing.

here’s why it is a mistake.

yes…if you get a first down you are going to win. But you have a 2 score lead with 7 minutes left and the clock is on your side.

Go up 13 and people whine that you are still only up 2 scores. That’s true. But time and possessions are what matter.

up 13 it doesn’t matter what the opponent does. If they score 7…you get the ball up 6 needing only 40 yards or so to finish the game with a fg.

you took that option off of the table. You made it a 3 point lead and now you need a td to end the game.

which of those is easier to do?

 

[Ace]

You make the play to seal the win on fourth down with much less time left and up 1 score.

they did it too early and took control out of their hands.

this way opened all the doors they thought they were closing. Points are scored when teams are forced to try.

 

[Ace]

Either way…we are going to have to find a way to win in KC in the playoffs now.

 

[Der Jaeger]

I would’ve kicked the field goal too. Maybe not the analytics thing to do but I’d take a 13 point lead and the Vikings having to drive 75 yards instead of what happened.

 

[Ace]

I want to make clear that McDermott did the right thing based on what the numbers said.

My argument is that the numbers were wrong

 

[Zman5778]

I mean…what happened was basically the worst case scenario. If they blew the play the opponent should have started at the 8. But we’ve actually seen this before. Baltimore did it against us.

the same thing.

here’s why it is a mistake.

yes…if you get a first down you are going to win. But you have a 2 score lead with 7 minutes left and the clock is on your side.

Go up 13 and people whine that you are still only up 2 scores. That’s true. But time and possessions are what matter.

up 13 it doesn’t matter what the opponent does. If they score 7…you get the ball up 6 needing only 40 yards or so to finish the game with a fg.

you took that option off of the table. You made it a 3 point lead and now you need a td to end the game.

which of those is easier to do?

This might be the best post I've seen you make.......and the post that best describes my POV on the issue.

Spot. Freaking. On.

 

[Fezzy126]

The loss today sucked, but man Jefferson is a freak

 

[DolanPlsGoSabres]

If we can get any solace at least the Chargers will likely lose

 

[Der Jaeger]

I mean…what happened was basically the worst case scenario. If they blew the play the opponent should have started at the 8. But we’ve actually seen this before. Baltimore did it against us.

the same thing.

here’s why it is a mistake.

yes…if you get a first down you are going to win. But you have a 2 score lead with 7 minutes left and the clock is on your side.

Go up 13 and people whine that you are still only up 2 scores. That’s true. But time and possessions are what matter.

up 13 it doesn’t matter what the opponent does. If they score 7…you get the ball up 6 needing only 40 yards or so to finish the game with a fg.

you took that option off of the table. You made it a 3 point lead and now you need a td to end the game.

which of those is easier to do?

This post is why you cannot solely go off analytics.

 

[Ralonzo]

Both teams can win a trade, both teams can lose a trade, but only one team can lose a game. Congrats Bills; you wanted the L more than the other guys.

 

[misterchainsaw]

I mean…what happened was basically the worst case scenario. If they blew the play the opponent should have started at the 8. But we’ve actually seen this before. Baltimore did it against us.

the same thing.

here’s why it is a mistake.

yes…if you get a first down you are going to win. But you have a 2 score lead with 7 minutes left and the clock is on your side.

Go up 13 and people whine that you are still only up 2 scores. That’s true. But time and possessions are what matter.

up 13 it doesn’t matter what the opponent does. If they score 7…you get the ball up 6 needing only 40 yards or so to finish the game with a fg.

you took that option off of the table. You made it a 3 point lead and now you need a td to end the game.

which of those is easier to do?

I disagree. If they go 40 yards, they eat up the rest of the clock and win. They didn't need a TD (or a FG) to wrap the game up, they needed a couple of first downs. Instead they went 3 and out.

 

[The don godfather]

That was game of the decade.

 

[kirby11]

I mean…what happened was basically the worst case scenario. If they blew the play the opponent should have started at the 8. But we’ve actually seen this before. Baltimore did it against us.

the same thing.

here’s why it is a mistake.

yes…if you get a first down you are going to win. But you have a 2 score lead with 7 minutes left and the clock is on your side.

Go up 13 and people whine that you are still only up 2 scores. That’s true. But time and possessions are what matter.

up 13 it doesn’t matter what the opponent does. If they score 7…you get the ball up 6 needing only 40 yards or so to finish the game with a fg.

you took that option off of the table. You made it a 3 point lead and now you need a td to end the game.

which of those is easier to do?

Well said. I typically have been in favor of going for the more aggressive play, but given our horrendous short yardage offense, Allen’s recent struggles, and our general red zone ineptitude this year, I think I would’ve taken the FG there to get the safer/larger 2 possession lead and trusted them to hold once and/or drain the clock

 

[EichHart]

lol

 

[EichHart]

As a season ticket holder that game took a few yrs off my life. I feel like we're cursed. I get this feeling that somehow we're going to find a way to lose.

 

[Husko]

I’m going to repeat this for the people in the back...if they kick the fg to go up 13 they win three different times.

the analytics are wrong. They’re factoring in things that have nothing to do with end of game scoring. When teams are forced to score…scoring goes way up.

The analytics actually didn't say go for it

I want to make clear that McDermott did the right thing based on what the numbers said.

My argument is that the numbers were wrong

What numbers? What are you relying on?

 

[Husko]

Will all of you that spent this page asailing analytics for causing McDermott to make a bad decision now apologize to math? The analytics said kick the field goal. McDermott chose to trust his gut instead.