Proposal: 2023-24 Roster Talk 2

[Wally1112pac]

Hype vid.

 

[Kevin Musto]

I'm fairly certain Korchinski will play enough games to burn a year on his ELC, but he will still get sent back down to juniors

 

[WarriorofTime]

I'm fairly certain Korchinski will play enough games to burn a year on his ELC, but he will still get sent back down to juniors

That would make the least sense. It does happen from time to time but is rarely by design coming in.

 

[EbonyRaptor]

I wish I could say I'm surprised the Hawks haven't announced their training camp roster less than 24 hours before training camp officially starts - but this is par for the course for the PR department keeping their fan base informed.

 

[bwanajamba]

Stupid reason, do what is best for their development, especially for a young defenseman that still lacks an NHL frame...Bedard is the exception, most 19 year olds are not ready to play in the league, especially defense

To be fair all they would have to do to burn the contract year and keep him on the same renewal cycle as Bedard is get him into 10 games. I feel like Powers has been hinting quite a bit at the likelihood that they keep him around long enough to burn a year but ultimately end up sending him back to Seattle.

Would make the most sense imo to have him start in the NHL and if it's clear he needs more seasoning to release him for the World Juniors and play the rest of the year in the WHL

 

[Pez68]

It makes no sense to burn a year off his ELC if he's not ready...

 

[bwanajamba]

It makes no sense to burn a year off his ELC if he's not ready...

It does if they think they can get him cost controlled as a two-year full time NHLer RFA vs a three-year NHLer RFA, one year older and with a larger body of work

 

[Kevin Musto]

That would make the least sense. It does happen from time to time but is rarely by design coming in.

It makes no sense to burn a year off his ELC if he's not ready...

It's the most logical course of action.

He'll have less of an NHL resume by the time he needs to be extended, thus decreasing his leverage in negotiations.

People overstate the importance of ELCs. They're only relevant to cap-strapped contenders.

 

[MTU34]

It's the most logical course of action.

He'll have less of an NHL resume by the time he needs to be extended, thus decreasing his leverage in negotiations.

People overstate the importance of ELCs. They're only relevant to cap-strapped contenders.

Agreed. Reichel is a perfect example of this. Had they not burned the ELC year when they didn’t have to we’d be looking at paying him after 2 full years of nhl hockey and presumably good production given he’ll have exposure to Bedard. With that year burned though he’s up after this year and will only have 1 full season to bring to the table

 

[x Tame Impala]

Part of me thinks they keep KK up to have him on the same renewal trajectory as CB98. The sooner they can lock in some of those contracts, the better, especially with the cap rising and players seemingly feeling more entitled (not wrongfully) to more cash.

It does if they think they can get him cost controlled as a two-year full time NHLer RFA vs a three-year NHLer RFA, one year older and with a larger body of work

That'd be a Bowman-esque move IMO. Give the kid a 9 game sample and unless his play demands he stays up then send him back to another year of the CHL. We have $50 million in cap space ahead of us so however things shake out the FO can figure it out then.

 

[EbonyRaptor]

It's the most logical course of action.

He'll have less of an NHL resume by the time he needs to be extended, thus decreasing his leverage in negotiations.

People overstate the importance of ELCs. They're only relevant to cap-strapped contenders.

More relevant than the 3 year versus 4 year ELC is the 40 game threshold that either subtracts or leaves intact the number of RFA years before the player reaches UFA status.

 

[Muffinalt]

There is a point to be made that staying with the Hawks under the tutelage of Richardson, Dean and Campbell in a rotation with other young d-men may be a better plan for his development than going back to Seattle to get "more minutes per game". The good news is that KD and staff seem to be pretty astute so trusting them to make the best decision is easy to do.

It's all about his confidence. Tutelage and exposure to the routine is good, but it hits diminishing returns after a while. Teach him the basics and he can carry that with him to juniors.

But if he's physically not ready, gets lit up for example by the Reaves' of the world, or loses confidence in basic abilities like stick work simply because he's too weak for now to fully carry over his play, then we f***ed up.

That's the whole point of marination. I only care about this to be honest, and KDs comments indicate they do too.

Let's see, it'll be clear one way or another after camp/first few games.

 

[EbonyRaptor]

It's all about his confidence. Tutelage and exposure to the routine is good, but it hits diminishing returns after a while. Teach him the basics and he can carry that with him to juniors.

But if he's physically not ready, gets lit up for example by the Reaves' of the world, or loses confidence in basic abilities like stick work simply because he's too weak for now to fully carry over his play, then we f***ed up.

That's the whole point of marination. I only care about this to be honest, and KDs comments indicate they do too.

Let's see, it'll be clear one way or another after camp/first few games.

I agree confidence is key. I was making a counterpoint to the notion that if he isn't ready right out of the gate it's better for him to go to Seattle to further his development rather than work on his development under the tutelage of Richardson, Dean and Campbell.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Agreed. Reichel is a perfect example of this. Had they not burned the ELC year when they didn’t have to we’d be looking at paying him after 2 full years of nhl hockey and presumably good production given he’ll have exposure to Bedard. With that year burned though he’s up after this year and will only have 1 full season to bring to the table

This just leads to bridge + arb eligibility most of the time. It’s unlikely Reichel is signing an eight year deal or anything.

 

[x Tame Impala]

He paced for 25 goals 50 some points last year in like 30 games. Way too early to worry about a contract

 

[Toews2Bickell]

burning ELC years when they're not going to stay with the big club is as dumb as it gets, the league gifts teams 3 years of production at basically min salary, why throw that away so Korchinski can go back to Seattle

 

[BHawk21]

Theres very clearly two ways to look at burning Korchinskis ELC. Burn it and give him a bridge deal or long deal with less NHL production so when Moore Nazar top pick this year are all on ELCs hes still cheaper then another year of good play. Dont burn it and try to use his 3rd cheap year to compete.

I believe Owen Power and Kent Johnson both burned their first years. They will get paid after this year instead of after their 3rd NHL seasons. In theory getting them at a bridge or cheaper long team deal because the 3rd year should be a step up from the 2nd.

I would do this with Korchinski just because all of our other high valued prospects you can wait on. Sign Korchinski to a long term deal (if the potential is there) after his 2nd full year. Play out the rest with full ELCs. I dont think we will be in cap trouble by 2025.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

in baseball they always game the service time to maximize production relative to salary, only the nhl does dumb shit like choose the inferior option of burning service years when their team is nowhere near winning...if baseball execs were running the hawks they'd probably send bedard back to game his service years if they could but it never happens in the nhl, would also maximize your tank for celibrini equity but probably not by much

 

[Callidusblackhawk]

in baseball they always game the service time to maximize production relative to salary, only the nhl does dumb shit like choose the inferior option of burning service years when their team is nowhere near winning...if baseball execs were running the hawks they'd probably send bedard back to game his service years if they could but it never happens in the nhl, would also maximize your tank for celibrini equity but probably not by much

How to get your future franchise players to demand a trade or leave as a UFA 101.

 

[ClydeLee]

in baseball they always game the service time to maximize production relative to salary, only the nhl does dumb shit like choose the inferior option of burning service years when their team is nowhere near winning...if baseball execs were running the hawks they'd probably send bedard back to game his service years if they could but it never happens in the nhl, would also maximize your tank for celibrini equity but probably not by much

Baseball every dollar matters more for teams because theres no rigid equally shared cap.

But you see this manipulation at times in Hockey. Reichel wasn't a dull nhler to tank. Marner and Nylander could of played for Toronto when they tanked for Matthews.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

Baseball every dollar matters more for teams because theres no rigid equally shared cap.

But you see this manipulation at times in Hockey. Reichel wasn't a dull nhler to tank. Marner and Nylander could of played for Toronto when they tanked for Matthews.

I'm not saying teams don't do it, just saying teams should do it more often than they do in NHL

How to get your future franchise players to demand a trade or leave as a UFA 101.

Bedard is an exception to the rule, if you don't have to burn ELC years when you're not going to be competitive then don't do it, send KK back...the goal is to have as many guys putting up production that are worth multiples their AAV during a window that matters, Hawks are not even close to there yet...and its not like its a constant, its just dependent on where you are in your window, the Hawks had Leddy in the lineup at like 19 but they were ready to win, its idiotic to burn service years to finish last, Bedard of course has no purpose playing in junior again, KK does

 

[Callidusblackhawk]

I'm not saying teams don't do it, just saying teams should do it more often than they do in NHL


Bedard is an exception to the rule, if you don't have to burn ELC years when you're not going to be competitive then don't do it, send KK back...the goal is to have as many guys putting up production that are worth multiples their AAV during a window that matters, Hawks are not even close to there yet...and its not like its a constant, its just dependent on where you are in your window, the Hawks had Leddy in the lineup at like 19 but they were ready to win, its idiotic to burn service years to finish last, Bedard of course has no purpose playing in junior again, KK does

I guess I just don't understand why you're stressed about ELCs right now when the Hawks need to figure out which players will even be future pieces. The Hawks almost certainly aren't going to be competing while the current crop of ELC guys are still on their ELCs anyway. If he plays 10 games and gets sent back to juniors this year then yeah, that's probably pretty stupid but even that could work out for the team in the long run if he comes back the next two years and tears it up as he'll have less of a sample size to use to negotiate his next contract.

 

[CallMeShaft]

I ain't stressing about the cap until we're right up against it. Far too early to be worried about the kids and their ELCs.

 

[Hattrick Kane]

3 years sucks but he’s up when Bedard is up, so I’d do it still for a first. Park him in the minors and forget he exists.

 

[Kevin Musto]

3 years sucks but he’s up when Bedard is up, so I’d do it still for a first. Park him in the minors and forget he exists.

Didn't they sign him to that contract last year?

f***ing hell Pierre is beyond incompetent. If he has to forfeit a 1st to move that contract, he's getting fired so fast.

Good thing Kyle has him on speed dial.