Blues 2024 Off-Season Trade Proposals Thread

[Linkens Mastery]

The no-trade says Arizona Coyotes on it, but he's going to Utah. Checkmate.

Sadly that loophole can't be used since he has a full NTC instead of a limited one. Haha

 

[mk80]

The no-trade says Arizona Coyotes on it, but he's going to Utah. Checkmate.

Sadly that loophole can't be used since he has a full NTC instead of a limited one. Haha

That does bring up the question of has the league released anything on how it will work for players with M-NTC's, I'd assume they'll be given a chance to update their lists? Although I suspect Utah won't be as much of an undesirable location once more players experience how Ryan Smith runs the team, by all accounts so far it's been a positive experience for all the ex-Coyotes

 

[Linkens Mastery]

That does bring up the question of has the league released anything on how it will work for players with M-NTC's, I'd assume they'll be given a chance to update their lists? Although I suspect Utah won't be as much of an undesirable location once more players experience how Ryan Smith runs the team, by all accounts so far it's been a positive experience for all the ex-Coyotes

Players with MNTC update their lists every summer. Biggest reason we could trade Bergy was because his list didn't get submitted and basically made it voided.

 

[STL fan in MN]

Players with MNTC update their lists every summer. Biggest reason we could trade Bergy was because his list didn't get submitted and basically made it voided.

But that doesn’t really address the hypothetical mk80 brings up though. The new lists start on July 1st. What about from now through June 30th?

I would assume they’ve said that if a player has Arizona on their NTC list, it still applies to the Utah franchise but we don’t know that for sure. It’s a legit question. Especially since it’s technically not even the same franchise. It’s a brand new franchise while the Arizona franchise has gone dormant.

 

[PocketNines]

It would be difficult to imagine the ultimate factfinder ruling that a player with Arizona on his NTC would be allowed to move to Utah. There was zero foreseeability from the player side to be able to protect themselves. Players can also argue that the league moving the franchise, if that removed Arizona from guys' NTC list, then across the board players have unforeseeably lost 10% or 6.7% or 5% whatever of their rights. In short I would be shocked if a player could be traded to Utah before July 1 even if he has Arizona on a NTC

 

[bleedblue1223]

I would imagine Utah would take the place as Arizona or a relocation would trigger an updated list, sort of how a life event with payroll benefits can allow you to update your elected benefits mid-year.

 

[Brian39]

I haven't heard a definite answer from the league, but I feel very comfortable saying that a player with Arizona on their no trade list can not be traded to Utah.

Even if the league believes that they could convince an arbitrator of the legality, it would be an immediate grievance from the NHLPA that would get tied up in arbitration lasting months. Bettman and the league dislike the uncertainty of arbitration, which is no small part of how this deal got done. They gave the old owner a damn good deal to avoid him fighting the league's decision to prevent him from trying to play 3+ more seasons at Mullett.

It is pretty easy for the league to just tell teams 'any player with Arizona on their no-trade list now has Utah on their no trade list' rather than trying to allow a few teams to jettison a bad contract and open up a massive conflict with the PA.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Could a player still choose to waive for a team on their NTC list though. Lets say we had a player that was Mormon and in their eyes, they would only play in St. Louis or Utah, but Utah has never been an option. So, it's not like players that want to go to Utah would not be able to accept a trade there. Players could argue they are harmed because they wouldn't have Utah on and would want to replace it with another city. If I'm a betting man, I'd say Utah stays on a fair amount no trade lists until they start winning, and then winning will open some things up.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

That does bring up the question of has the league released anything on how it will work for players with M-NTC's, I'd assume they'll be given a chance to update their lists? Although I suspect Utah won't be as much of an undesirable location once more players experience how Ryan Smith runs the team, by all accounts so far it's been a positive experience for all the ex-Coyotes

Do you have any links about this? I’d love to read more details.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

Could a player still choose to waive for a team on their NTC list though. Let’s say we had a player that was Mormon and in their eyes, they would only play in St. Louis or Utah, but Utah has never been an option. So, it's not like players that want to go to Utah would not be able to accept a trade there. Players could argue they are harmed because they wouldn't have Utah on and would want to replace it with another city. If I'm a betting man, I'd say Utah stays on a fair amount no trade lists until they start winning, and then winning will open some things up.

A player can always waive their trade protection. Guys with total NTC waive all the time. Thats how Doug Weight got moved.

The only hypothetical would be a guy that is ‘wasting’ one of his limited NTC slots on Utah when they actually don’t mind going there. That could have been used to block Buffalo instead.

 

[Brian39]

Could a player still choose to waive for a team on their NTC list though. Lets say we had a player that was Mormon and in their eyes, they would only play in St. Louis or Utah, but Utah has never been an option. So, it's not like players that want to go to Utah would not be able to accept a trade there. Players could argue they are harmed because they wouldn't have Utah on and would want to replace it with another city. If I'm a betting man, I'd say Utah stays on a fair amount no trade lists until they start winning, and then winning will open some things up.

Players can always waive a NTC or a team on their NTC. At any time, any player in your hypothetical could inform his current team 'I will accept a trade to Utah even though I wouldn't have accepted a trade to Arizona.'

There would be no harm done to the players by having the NTC 'transfer' from Arizona to Utah.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

Could a player still choose to waive for a team on their NTC list though. Lets say we had a player that was Mormon and in their eyes, they would only play in St. Louis or Utah, but Utah has never been an option. So, it's not like players that want to go to Utah would not be able to accept a trade there. Players could argue they are harmed because they wouldn't have Utah on and would want to replace it with another city. If I'm a betting man, I'd say Utah stays on a fair amount no trade lists until they start winning, and then winning will open some things up.

Absolutely. A player who didn't want anything to do with Arizona could love to play in Utah and all they would have to do is tell their GM. "Hey, I know I didn't want to go to Arizona, but, I would love to go to Salt Lake City If you found a deal"

 

[Majorityof1]

But that doesn’t really address the hypothetical mk80 brings up though. The new lists start on July 1st. What about from now through June 30th?

I would assume they’ve said that if a player has Arizona on their NTC list, it still applies to the Utah franchise but we don’t know that for sure. It’s a legit question. Especially since it’s technically not even the same franchise. It’s a brand new franchise while the Arizona franchise has gone dormant.

If it is a whole new franchise, then are all the contracts signed void? I think it would be easier if it's the same company, just the name and logo are being reserved for a new franchise if the former owner gets a venue. Otherwise the coach, GM, all front office employees would have to sign new contracts.

 

[STL fan in MN]

If it is a whole new franchise, then are all the contracts signed void? I think it would be easier if it's the same company, just the name and logo are being reserved for a new franchise if the former owner gets a venue. Otherwise the coach, GM, all front office employees would have to sign new contracts.

My understanding is that the Utah franchise bought all of the player and hockey operations staff contracts from the Arizona franchise.

It’s an odd transaction and I don’t think I’ve ever seen it done this way before. But seemingly it was done so Meruelo could keep the Coyotes name, logo, history etc but sell all of the actual assets.

I would assume this would also mean that any Coyotes employee that didn’t work in Hockey Operations (finance, tickets, marketing, operations, broadcasting, communications, legal, IT etc) just lost their job.

 

[Majorityof1]

My understanding is that the Utah franchise bought all of the player and hockey operations staff contracts from the Arizona franchise.

It’s an odd transaction and I don’t think I’ve ever seen it done this way before. But seemingly it was done so Meruelo could keep the Coyotes name, logo, history etc but sell all of the actual assets.

I would assume this would also mean that any Coyotes employee that didn’t work in Hockey Operations (finance, tickets, marketing, operations, broadcasting, communications, legal, IT etc) just lost their job.

Weird. I'm not sure the coach and GM contracts would have a provision to be sold. We can't buy out Montgomery's contract from the Bruins, so I wonder how that works legaly. SPC at least has provisions to be traded, but I don't think there would be a provision for transfer a coach or Gm absent incredible foresight.

I guess they could treat it like a spinoff. Incorporate hockey ops into a subsidiary and then sell that. Anyway, that's just me musing. Thanks for the info.

 

[mk80]

Players with MNTC update their lists every summer. Biggest reason we could trade Bergy was because his list didn't get submitted and basically made it voided.

But that doesn’t really address the hypothetical mk80 brings up though. The new lists start on July 1st. What about from now through June 30th?

I would assume they’ve said that if a player has Arizona on their NTC list, it still applies to the Utah franchise but we don’t know that for sure. It’s a legit question. Especially since it’s technically not even the same franchise. It’s a brand new franchise while the Arizona franchise has gone dormant.

I haven't heard a definite answer from the league, but I feel very comfortable saying that a player with Arizona on their no trade list can not be traded to Utah.

Even if the league believes that they could convince an arbitrator of the legality, it would be an immediate grievance from the NHLPA that would get tied up in arbitration lasting months. Bettman and the league dislike the uncertainty of arbitration, which is no small part of how this deal got done. They gave the old owner a damn good deal to avoid him fighting the league's decision to prevent him from trying to play 3+ more seasons at Mullett.

It is pretty easy for the league to just tell teams 'any player with Arizona on their no-trade list now has Utah on their no trade list' rather than trying to allow a few teams to jettison a bad contract and open up a massive conflict with the PA.

The updated lists on July 1st I think will work for a lot of cases, but I'd assume they will need to figure out something before the draft otherwise potential trades could be hampered by the situation. Maybe it is simple in that Arizona now means Utah.

Do you have any links about this? I’d love to read more details.

I'm having difficulty tracking some things down, mostly I've just seen tweets and video clips from insiders talking about the behind the scenes of the Coyotes trip to Utah surrounding the fan event they had there. Things like the players being impressed with their tours of the Jazz facilities, the Smith's bringing in realtors to meet and work with the players, and being willing to spend on the more trivial things. I apologize, I didn't come prepared with the sources, I'll put what I can remember below:

Frank Serravali article:

‘We’re back in the NHL again.’ Utah already feels like home for ex-Coyotes

Greeted by overwhelming passion, the players, coaches and management are thrilled to begin their voyage.

www.dailyfaceoff.com

Here's one clip I remember from the PHNX_Coyotes podcast which for a podcast I consider fairly credible featuring Craig Morgan who covered the team for almost their entire time in Pheonix, and Steve Peters who is a former video coach for the Coyotes and well plugged into the team. I know there's been a few times the last few weeks they've discussed certain things.


I also think Steve Peters open letter to Mereulo speaks to how the Coyotes have been operated lately...


Edit: this ESPN article has a section covering the team operations under Meruello a long way down but overall a good read Inside the tumultuous tenure of the Coyotes in Arizona and their stunning move to Utah

 

[EastVillageBlues]

I would imagine Utah would take the place as Arizona or a relocation would trigger an updated list, sort of how a life event with payroll benefits can allow you to update your elected benefits mid-year.

Right.

This is a really strange thing to be worried about. I doubt that the league legal consul would be so negligent as to forget to check circumstances like this before the move was announced.

 

[Thallis]

Right.

This is a really strange thing to be worried about. I doubt that the league legal consul would be so negligent as to forget to check circumstances like this before the move was announced.

This was also reported on as a thing players were asking for confirmation on as the move was first being broken

That does bring up the question of has the league released anything on how it will work for players with M-NTC's, I'd assume they'll be given a chance to update their lists? Although I suspect Utah won't be as much of an undesirable location once more players experience how Ryan Smith runs the team, by all accounts so far it's been a positive experience for all the ex-Coyotes

Reporting before everything was confirmed suggested that players wanted to update their list to put SLC on there where Arizona was not more than the other way around. Players who don't know anything about SLC are probably going to be pretty hesitant to go there before there's an actual test run.

 

[mk80]

This was also reported on as a thing players were asking for confirmation on as the move was first being broken


Reporting before everything was confirmed suggested that players wanted to update their list to put SLC on there where Arizona was not more than the other way around. Players who don't know anything about SLC are probably going to be pretty hesitant to go there before there's an actual test run.

Thanks! That makes sense players would be skeptical until things settle down more. I have a feeling that over time more players will be open to going there, once they hear and experience the operations of things, and the ex Coyotes can give them more insight into everything.

 

[WeWentBlues]

Surveying the league for LD that are still RFAs to see if we can't find our own version of Devon Toews out there. I'd prefer acquiring someone more NHL ready over trying to address the need at the draft (especially with a first and two seconds at our disposal to facilitate a trade). First 50 names sorted by GP in 2023-2024. Obviously some of these guys won't be moved but there are a few names that stand out.

Rangers, Sabres, Canadiens, Senators, Ducks, Caps, Hawks all could be ideal trade partners.

Player	TEAM	AGE
Kevin Bahl	NJD	23​
Cam York	PHI	22​
Luke Hughes	NJD	19​
Rasmus Dahlin	BUF	23​
Alexander Romanov	NYI	23​
K'Andre Miller	NYR	23​
J.J. Moser	ARI	23​
Thomas Harley	DAL	21​
Jake Sanderson	OTT	20​
Dylan Samberg	WPG	24​
Ryan Lindgren	NYR	25​
Erik Brännström	OTT	23​
Alex Vlasic	CHI	22​
Owen Power	BUF	20​
Kevin Korchinski	CHI	19​
Nicolas Hague	VGK	24​
Bowen Byram	BUF	22​
Jake Bean	CBJ	25​
Jackson LaCombe	ANA	22​
Kaiden Guhle	MTL	21​
Urho Vaakanainen	ANA	24​
Juuso Välimäki	ARI	24​
Rasmus Sandin	WSH	23​
Martin Fehérváry	WSH	23​
Yegor Zamula	PHI	23​
Simon Benoit	TOR	24​
Pavel Mintyukov	ANA	19​
Jordan Harris	MTL	22​
Jayden Struble	MTL	21​
Scott Perunovich	STL	24​
Pierre-Olivier Joseph	PIT	24​
Nikita Okhotiuk	CGY	22​
Henry Thrun	SJS	22​
Arber Xhekaj	MTL	22​
Parker Wotherspoon	BOS	25​
Ryan Johnson	BUF	21​
Mason Lohrei	BOS	22​
Alexander Alexeyev	WSH	23​
Emil Martinsen Lilleberg	TBL	22​
Jacob Bryson	BUF	25​
Ryker Evans	SEA	21​
Samuel Bolduc	NYI	22​
John Ludvig	PIT	22​
Isaak Phillips	CHI	21​
Wyatt Kaiser	CHI	20​
Declan Chisholm	MIN	23​
Zachary Jones	NYR	22​
Josh Mahura	FLA	25​
Tyler Tucker	STL	23​
Olen Zellweger	ANA	19​

 

[Blueston]

Surveying the league for LD that are still RFAs to see if we can't find our own version of Devon Toews out there. I'd prefer acquiring someone more NHL ready over trying to address the need at the draft (especially with a first and two seconds at our disposal to facilitate a trade). First 50 names sorted by GP in 2023-2024. Obviously some of these guys won't be moved but there are a few names that stand out.

Rangers, Sabres, Canadiens, Senators, Ducks, Caps, Hawks all could be ideal trade partners.

Player	TEAM	AGE
Kevin Bahl	NJD	23​
Cam York	PHI	22​
Luke Hughes	NJD	19​
Rasmus Dahlin	BUF	23​
Alexander Romanov	NYI	23​
K'Andre Miller	NYR	23​
J.J. Moser	ARI	23​
Thomas Harley	DAL	21​
Jake Sanderson	OTT	20​
Dylan Samberg	WPG	24​
Ryan Lindgren	NYR	25​
Erik Brännström	OTT	23​
Alex Vlasic	CHI	22​
Owen Power	BUF	20​
Kevin Korchinski	CHI	19​
Nicolas Hague	VGK	24​
Bowen Byram	BUF	22​
Jake Bean	CBJ	25​
Jackson LaCombe	ANA	22​
Kaiden Guhle	MTL	21​
Urho Vaakanainen	ANA	24​
Juuso Välimäki	ARI	24​
Rasmus Sandin	WSH	23​
Martin Fehérváry	WSH	23​
Yegor Zamula	PHI	23​
Simon Benoit	TOR	24​
Pavel Mintyukov	ANA	19​
Jordan Harris	MTL	22​
Jayden Struble	MTL	21​
Scott Perunovich	STL	24​
Pierre-Olivier Joseph	PIT	24​
Nikita Okhotiuk	CGY	22​
Henry Thrun	SJS	22​
Arber Xhekaj	MTL	22​
Parker Wotherspoon	BOS	25​
Ryan Johnson	BUF	21​
Mason Lohrei	BOS	22​
Alexander Alexeyev	WSH	23​
Emil Martinsen Lilleberg	TBL	22​
Jacob Bryson	BUF	25​
Ryker Evans	SEA	21​
Samuel Bolduc	NYI	22​
John Ludvig	PIT	22​
Isaak Phillips	CHI	21​
Wyatt Kaiser	CHI	20​
Declan Chisholm	MIN	23​
Zachary Jones	NYR	22​
Josh Mahura	FLA	25​
Tyler Tucker	STL	23​
Olen Zellweger	ANA	19​

not sure where you pulled this, but several of them have already signed extensions, many of them months ago. nonetheless, i like how you are thinking here about taking advantage of other team's cap issues to find our dtoews.

 

[WeWentBlues]

not sure where you pulled this, but several of them have already signed extensions, many of them months ago. nonetheless, i like how you are thinking here about taking advantage of other team's cap issues to find our dtoews.

Capfriendly, filtered by RFA and left handed D and then sorted by games played. Guess it still classifies guys as RFA even if they've already sign an extension that takes them to UFA.

 

[Blueston]

Capfriendly, filtered by RFA and left handed D and then sorted by games played. Guess it still classifies guys as RFA even if they've already sign an extension that takes them to UFA.

weird. i use them all the time and never seen glitch like that.

 

[Em etah Eh]

Without discussing which teams actually have interest, what value pick does Buch + 16OA get us?

Feel free to set a range of picks from unextended Buch to Extended Buch.

A range of 5th to 10thOA based on certainty from other team?

What would it take for you to move him in this scenario?

 

[Majorityof1]

Without discussing which teams actually have interest, what value pick does Buch + 16OA get us?

Feel free to set a range of picks from unextended Buch to Extended Buch.

A range of 5th to 10thOA based on certainty from other team?

What would it take for you to move him in this scenario?

I don't think any team far enough below us to make it worth while is going to fall back for 1 year of a pending UFA, no matter how good he is. They are probably not competing the next year.