Pre-WWII 2023 - Draft Thread I

[Professor What]

Ottawa picks its first spare by taking Steamer Maxwell.

 

[jigglysquishy]

The Regina Capitals select multi sport legend, goaltender Bouse Hutton . When he backstopped the Ottawa Silver Sevens, he put up very strong numbers on a dynasty.

In a backup role, it's nice to have a goalie who is used to playing sporadically or going long times without a shot. It can be mentally taxing on a goalie to never face shots and then put into a high pressure situation.

@seventieslord

 

[seventieslord]

I'm going to take Tom Hooper, R/D/RW. Hooper's one of those guys that's good enough as a player to take a regular shift, but when viewed as a positional player, his resume doesn't doesn't have the meat on it that other comparables do, so he falls to spare status.

Hooper's offensive numbers look rather meagre, but that'll happen when about 36% of your games are spent at point and cover point. The other 2/3 of his GP were spent as a forward: a little more rover than RW. If there's a better example of a clear three-position player, I'd like to see it!

Hooper won the cup with the 1907 Thistles, who raised him from a young lad into the champion he'd soon become. Then after losing the title to the Wanderers in the 1908 season, in the mass exodus from Kenora, he joined the Wanderers for one last hurrah, in which he helped them defend the cup as a coverpoint.

@Dr John Carlson

 

[Dr John Carlson]

To be honest, we aren't sold that this is the smartest move, but it's the move we want to make in our heart. We've already got Howard McNamara as a giant on the blueline, and we're going to double down on it and take another big boy as a spare. The Halifax Crescents select Harry Mummery, D.

Actually, I think this a smart pick, because Mummery was truly one of the greatest all-around superstars of his time. My evidence to back that up? Just this one incredible passage from the 1918 Cup final ought to convince anybody:

Holmes did not have much to do, because Mummery and Cameron had the Vancouver attackers buffaloed most of the evening. Big Mumm. made it his business to make every one of the Western sharp-shooters a present of about 220 pounds of beef all in a lump early in the game, and after that when the Human Locomotive steamed out to meet them they usually heaved the puck 'Holmwards', and let it go at that.

Mummery wore out three sticks during the evening, trying to get on the score sheet, but the best he could do after a score of trips up the ice was an 'assist'. His tank-like peregrinations had the Coast boys doing everything but lying down in front to stop him, and the crowd enjoyed his earnest endeavors. Griffis, UNDRAFTED, and in fact everything on the Vancouver squad that had poundage worth mentioning had a bump at the 'ton on skates', but they could not stop him.

Once Si Griffis and Mummery put the thing to a test and went head-on and going at full speed. The crash woke up the weatherman on Bloor street, but honors were even. Both bounced back – and were only on bowing terms the rest of the evening. Mummery says two ribs were sprung in the smash, while Griffis says that the only thing undamaged about his anatomy since the crash is his wishbone, and that was away getting polished when the leviathan from Regina met him.

@Habsfan18

 

[Habsfan18]

Going to add a goal-scoring left winger as my first spare. Described in contemporary reports as underrated, consistent and reliable..Butch Keeling, LW

“He does not seem to do anything in orthodox fashion" said Colonel Kilpatrick. "Yet he comes through in the pinches. I will never forget the goal he scored when the Rangers put Americans out of the first round of the Stanley Cup playoff in the 1928-29 season. The teams had played 60 minutes without a score in the first game and it looked like they might play all night without a goal in the second match until Keeling came through with one of his blazing shots to win the series." Mr Dutton then added his bit to the Keeling story stating that the sharpshooter of the Rangers “takes more chances trying for a goal than any other man in the league." "And," added the Amerk boss, "what I would not give to have a couple like him on my team.”

 

[BenchBrawl]

Seattle selects Lorne Carr, RW

 

[tinyzombies]

Normie Smith, G

AS1
Vez1
2x Cups

After his two big seasons: "After suffering an arm injury, he slumped in 1937–38 and the Red Wings finished last. During a game in 1938–39, he did not show up, causing a rift with coach Jack Adams. He was then traded to Boston along with $15,000 U.S. cash on November 16, 1938 for Tiny Thompson, where there was no way he would beat out Frank Brimsek, and he was sent to the minors. Normie Smith retired rather than report to the minor leagues. He returned to play briefly with the Red Wings when World War II left a vacuum of players in the NHL."

 

[rmartin65]

The Montreal Victorias select

Joe Power, D

and

Herb Russel(l), LW/D

@tinyzombies is back on the clock

 

[tinyzombies]

Taffy Abel

 

[seventieslord]

The Montreal Victorias select

Joe Power, D

and

Herb Russel(l), LW/D

@tinyzombies is back on the clock

Isn't Joe Power a winger and his brother a defenseman?

.....and you just stole my next spare

 

[rmartin65]

Isn't Joe Power a winger and his brother a defenseman?

.....and you just stole my next spare

Joe Power actually played a bunch of different positions- LW, Rover, Coverpoint, and Point. I think he was probably at his best at coverpoint, where he was named to an all-star team in 1908-

From The Gazette, 26 February 1908 page 2 (EDIT to say The Gazette was citing this from an Ottawa paper)

"The defence men are subject to considerable discussion. Fred Taylor, of Ottawa, is acknowledged around the circuit to be the best cover point. But there are other cover points, and as Taylor is a natural point player, he is assigned to the first place out from the cage to make way for Joe Power, of Quebec, in front of him. Many may criticize the elimination of Arthur Ross of Wanderers. Ross has played consistent hockey, with flashed of brilliance, but he is lacking when placed beside Taylor. Taylor is a one-man player when on the offence for the reason it necessitates off-side loafing for any forward to accompany him down the ice. He has a wonderful burst of speed, can dodge anything, is a stick-handler, and a vicious, though somewhat erratic shot. As a defence man his is not so brilliant due to the fact that he is over-anxious to get the man, and, furthermore, no defence player in a stationary position can make sure of catching an attacking man with the lightning pace the forwards are now penetrating the defence. Much of a point or cover point's success as a defence player in modern day hockey depends on the assistance given him by his forwards. Jow [sic] Power is one of the most finished hockey players in the game. He has a creditable rival in Frank Patrick, of Victorias"

 

[seventieslord]

Joe Power actually played a bunch of different positions- LW, Rover, Coverpoint, and Point. I think he was probably at his best at coverpoint, where he was named to an all-star team in 1908-

From The Gazette, 26 February 1908 page 2 (EDIT to say The Gazette was citing this from an Ottawa paper)

"The defence men are subject to considerable discussion. Fred Taylor, of Ottawa, is acknowledged around the circuit to be the best cover point. But there are other cover points, and as Taylor is a natural point player, he is assigned to the first place out from the cage to make way for Joe Power, of Quebec, in front of him. Many may criticize the elimination of Arthur Ross of Wanderers. Ross has played consistent hockey, with flashed of brilliance, but he is lacking when placed beside Taylor. Taylor is a one-man player when on the offence for the reason it necessitates off-side loafing for any forward to accompany him down the ice. He has a wonderful burst of speed, can dodge anything, is a stick-handler, and a vicious, though somewhat erratic shot. As a defence man his is not so brilliant due to the fact that he is over-anxious to get the man, and, furthermore, no defence player in a stationary position can make sure of catching an attacking man with the lightning pace the forwards are now penetrating the defence. Much of a point or cover point's success as a defence player in modern day hockey depends on the assistance given him by his forwards. Jow [sic] Power is one of the most finished hockey players in the game. He has a creditable rival in Frank Patrick, of Victorias"

Looking at their lineup, I believe you're probably right, for that season. And probably the next. But other than that, SIHR has him as a forward, or with no defined position. Looking at his stats for the other seasons (1903 through 1907), it seems implausible he was ever at a defense position other than that.

I guess that's enough to call him a defenseman for some people. For me it wouldn't be. LW/D at best (in that order).

 

[BenchBrawl]

Seattle selects another member of the Victoria "Big Three" in the 1925 Stanley Cup Finals, Gord Fraser, D.

 

[rmartin65]

@seventieslord (since I forgot to quote before I started)

Opening up my notes for Joe Power, I have:

1903: 2 games at rover
1904: 4 games UNK Forward, 2 games UNK Wing (with the best guess at LW, based on the other winger)
1905: 1 game LW, 2 games UNK Forward, 6 games Rover
1906: 9 games Rover, 1 game UNK Forward
1907: 4 games Cover, 1 game UNK Forward, 2 games Rover
1908: 9 games Cover
1909: 10 games Cover, 2 games Point

All told: 55 games, 23 at cover, 19 at rover, 8 games UNK forward position, 3 games LW, and 2 games at point.

That's a pretty even Forward/Defense split, with his most accomplished season likely being at cover. I'm good with listing him as dual position (Rover/Cover), but he's definitely a viable defender.

EDIT to fix date to 1909, not 1910. I don’t have data from 1910.

 

[Habsfan18]

I want a steady and reliable 7th defenseman who Tommy Gorman can turn to in case of injury, but also one that he could confidently slot into the 3rd pairing to play a regular shift at any time should a situation call for it.

Very dependable defensively, “perhaps the daddy of all body checkers,” and believed to be the first defenseman to master the art of the shot-block. A 3x Stanley Cup champion and a second team all-star in 1942..Bucko McDonald, D

 

[seventieslord]

@Habsfan18 Bucko McDonald would've been selected a long time ago if he was eligible for this draft... but he was born in 1914.

Actually, I see SIHR has him as the same date, but in 1911. I had him on the eligible list a long time ago, then was considering him for my #5 defenseman, took another look at HR to confirm eligibility, saw 1914, and struck him off. I'm sure everyone else was of the same understanding or he'd be long gone right now.

It's Brimsek all over again....

Thoughts?

 

[seventieslord]

(how does HR have it this wrong? And we've already identified two, how many more are there???)

 

[Habsfan18]

@Habsfan18 Bucko McDonald would've been selected a long time ago if he was eligible for this draft... but he was born in 1914.

Actually, I see SIHR has him as the same date, but in 1911. I had him on the eligible list a long time ago, then was considering him for my #5 defenseman, took another look at HR to confirm eligibility, saw 1914, and struck him off. I'm sure everyone else was of the same understanding or he'd be long gone right now.

It's Brimsek all over again....

Thoughts?

Everything I’m showing has him born in 1911.

I think this is about where he belongs to go in the draft. I was eyeing him as a 7th D since early on.

It’s up to you guys though. I won’t put up a stink about it.

 

[seventieslord]

(nhl.com, eliteprospects, hockeydb all say 1914, only SIHR has 1911)

 

[Habsfan18]

(nhl.com, eliteprospects, hockeydb all say 1914, only SIHR has 1911)

Wilfred 'Bucko' McDonald < Bobby Orr Hall of Fame

Wilfred Kennedy McDonald was born in Fergus, Ontario on October 31, 1911. He earned the nickname ‘Bucko’ as a boy in Fergus. ‘Bucko’ is thought to be an Irish term for a fighter or one who is athletically inclined, and in this case, it fits. Prior to hockey, Bucko was known for Canada’s “other”...

bobbyorrhalloffame.com

This also has 1911.

 

[seventieslord]

I think this is about where he belongs to go in the draft. I was eyeing him as a 7th D since early on.

I would not say that. A guy with an NHL postseason all-star team, going this late? We're selecting Corbeaus, McNamaras and Mummerys right now.

 

[Habsfan18]

Wilfred Kennedy “Bucko” McDonald (1914-1991) –...

Professional Hockey Player. A native of Fergus, Ontario, McDonald played the position of Defense. At 5'10, and 205lbs, McDonald played for the Buffalo Bisons from 1933 to 1934 (IHL), Detroit Olmpics from 1934 to 1936 (IHL), Detroit Red Wings from 1934 to 1939 (NHL), Toronto Maple Leafs from 1938...

www.findagrave.com

Zooming in on his actual gravestone, it says 1911.

 

[seventieslord]

Bucko's ADP between ATDs 13-18 is 503. Fraser's 858, Mummery's 694, Halderson's 951, Coutu's 867, Loughlin's 750. Bucko's generally much higher regarded than those guys. I think he'd be gone already if we were all on the same page.

It's not draft-breaking, like a guy getting Brimsek in round 5. I don't care all that much. But I do think you got a steal simply by looking at a different source than everyone else did.

Wilfred Kennedy “Bucko” McDonald (1914-1991) –...

Professional Hockey Player. A native of Fergus, Ontario, McDonald played the position of Defense. At 5'10, and 205lbs, McDonald played for the Buffalo Bisons from 1933 to 1934 (IHL), Detroit Olmpics from 1934 to 1936 (IHL), Detroit Red Wings from 1934 to 1939 (NHL), Toronto Maple Leafs from 1938...

www.findagrave.com

Zooming in on his actual gravestone, it says 1911.

I'm not doubting that it's true, I'm making the point that going into this draft we all believed the more commonly cited 1914 and based our decisions on that.

 

[Habsfan18]

My original source was google lol

It is what it is. I’m fine with whatever everyone agrees on.

 

[rmartin65]

I think this one should stay. It isn't game-breaking. To me, this is no different than doing research into the player to find out if he was better than previously thought. Or played another position than previously thought, as the case may be.