Podcast (Audio) The Reason Gallant was fired in Vegas

[huerter]

Is it the chicken or the egg? The royal road is the 3 point line of hockey. You evolve with the times or you become a dinosaur.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Whether or not Gallant likes analytics, his teams always crush it analytically.

 

[Thordic]

Was it Florida or Vegas, where the analytics team was calling him mid period with line changes?

If this is true then good for him for telling them to pound sand.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I like the improved marketing. Change the thread title to what's most interesting and relevant.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Was it Florida or Vegas, where the analytics team was calling him mid period with line changes?

I believe it though.. Analytics nerds get extremely egotistical... they would be the types to call you mid period and insist they know more than you

That would be Florida.

 

[Gospel of Prospal]

Was it Florida or Vegas, where the analytics team was calling him mid period with line changes?

I believe it though.. Analytics nerds get extremely egotistical... they would be the types to call you mid period and insist they know more than you

According to Doug McLean (I think), it was the Panthers. The minority owner had a hard-on for analytics and hired a bunch of these computer nerds who would be in Gallant's ear in-between periods. When Gallant had enough, that's when things took a turn.

 

[will1066]

Let's face it, if people here had a direct line to the HC, it would blow up and melt during the games.

 

[bobbop]

So in other words, he really doesn't know but he was trying to bullshit his way in explaining what happened to Gallant.

Does this guy post here? He'd fit right in.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

So in other words, he really doesn't know but he was trying to bullshit his way in explaining what happened to Gallant.

Does this guy post here? He'd fit right in.

"This guy" is one of the greatest poker players of all time.

 

[cwede]

"This guy" is one of the greatest poker players of all time.

so we'll never know if he was bluffing

 

[cheech70]

He is guessing to a certain degree as he wasn't in the room:
A few weeks prior to being fired, he was due for a new contract. He was called in to the office after a 4 game losing streak and he assumed it was for a contract extension but the feeling was that they didn't feel like Gallant was utilizing the analytic team they had on staff enough. Shipashov and Tatar kind of the straw that broke the camels back in that sense. The owner went out and paid big money to get those two guys who analytics said would help the team and Gallant didn't like how they fit. Specifically with Tatar when he was brought in and the team was a cohesive group, Gallant didn't feel he had earned the right to play over some of 'his' guys who went all out and played well for him even though the analytics may have said otherwise.

Thank you for summary I like GG

 

[Crease]

Let's face it, if people here had a direct line to the HC, it would blow up and melt during the games.

“Sir, bernmeister is on the phone again. He says to put Nieves with Kreider and Buchnevich.”

 

[Edge]

“Sir, bernmeister is on the phone again. He says to put Nieves with Kreider and Buchnevich.”

Oh my God I think I just had a near death experience from laughing.

 

[Gardner McKay]

"This guy" is one of the greatest poker players of all time.

And, away from the poker table, an absolute sweetheart of a guy.

So in other words, he really doesn't know but he was trying to bullshit his way in explaining what happened to Gallant.

Does this guy post here? He'd fit right in.

Negreanu is as well connected in Vegas as anyone. He is Canadian, a HUGE hockey fan and a huge Golden Knights fan. Believe it or not, what he says actually carries weight.

 

[Machinehead]

Don't see this as an analytics issue.

Gallant clashes with his management over roster control. We knew that.

It's not the coach's job to use analytics. You can't make game-by-game, shift-by-shift decisions based on inherently large samples.

 

[Doctyl]

Whether or not Gallant likes analytics, his teams always crush it analytically.

Exactly. I dont care what his opinion on analytics are as long as his team plays like his past teams.

 

[Doctyl]

Don't see this as an analytics issue.

Gallant clashes with his management over roster control. We knew that.

It's not the coach's job to use analytics. You can't make game-by-game, shift-by-shift decisions based on inherently large samples.

Its also not managements job to control day to day use. If its so unbearable to the point you have to go Billy Beane and trade the coach's toys, maybe thats not the coach you should be working with.

 

[Machinehead]

Its also not managements job to control day to day use. If its so unbearable to the point you have to go Billy Beane and trade the coach's toys, maybe thats not the coach you should be working with.

There isn't one coach in the NHL this doesn't describe.

You just try to have more good than bad.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Don't see this as an analytics issue.

Gallant clashes with his management over roster control. We knew that.

It's not the coach's job to use analytics. You can't make game-by-game, shift-by-shift decisions based on inherently large samples.

Theres also a large flaw in hockey analytics in comparison to something like baseball analytics. In baseball each piece essentially works independently of each other. Its single outcome.
In hockey, the line matters, the chemistry of the line matters. Im a huge fan of analytics but there are times when it has its place, and times when it doesn't. If this story is true then I have no issues with Gallant doing the same with the rangers.

 

[pld459666]

Full disclosure. Not a fan of analytics.

Happy he doesn't rely on them much if at all.

 

[Machinehead]

Theres also a large flaw in hockey analytics in comparison to something like baseball analytics. In baseball each piece essentially works independently of each other. Its single outcome.
In hockey, the line matters, the chemistry of the line matters. Im a huge fan of analytics but there are times when it has its place, and times when it doesn't. If this story is true then I have no issues with Gallant doing the same with the rangers.

That's especially why you need a large sample.

You don't wanna be like the Yankees and put all nine fielders on one side in a tie game in the 8th inning, and then when the guy just chips a base hit opposite field because he's the winning run, you double down by saying that the shift drops averages.

Yes, in the first seven innings when guys are trying to hit homeruns.

 

[Irishguy42]

Another analytics debate thread and people using fourth-hand information at best to justify their beliefs?

 

[ponzu4u]

I'm curious if there are any noteworthy meta-analyses out there that analyze how players' analytics change or don't change when they change teams or coaches. Do the individual numbers tend to "stick" with the player or are they highly dependent on the coach/team they're playing for? Is it common for players' fancy stats to significantly change when changing teams? Is it generally considered possible to significantly improve an individual player's analytics?

 

[bobbop]

"This guy" is one of the greatest poker players of all time.

I rest my case.

 

[huerter]

I want my coach to have an analytical brain but not rely on analytical data.