Confirmed with Link: Casey Mittelstadt traded to COL for D Bo Byram. Straight up.

[Matt Ress]

If Thompson and Cozens don't up their game then it really doesn't matter who plays 3C or 4C. They need to be better and Adams needs to acquire a matchup center.

 

[joshjull]

If Thompson and Cozens don't up their game then it really doesn't matter who plays 3C or 4C. They need to be better and Adams needs to acquire a matchup center.

Thats going to be Cozens per one of Ruff’s recent interviews.

 

[Matt Ress]

Thats going to be Cozens per one of Ruff’s recent interviews.

Yes. It seemed like they were nudging him in that direction a few years ago. Then backed off defensive responsibilities during his explosive offensive season last year and 23/24 was just running backwards until the end of the season when he emerged as a PK presence.

I think if they get a defensive center they won't push Cozens into that matchup role as much especially if he's able to get back to form offensively but perhaps Lindy will have higher expectations all around for his forwards.

Either Cozens is sensitive to team production or he is driving their tendencies because it seems when he leans defensive, the team does and they all do the same offensively as well. Maybe I'm just overthinking simultaneous as correlation.

 

[joshjull]

Yes. It seemed like they were nudging him in that direction a few years ago. Then backed off defensive responsibilities during his explosive offensive season last year and 23/24 was just running backwards until the end of the season when he emerged as a PK presence.

I think if they get a defensive center they won't push Cozens into that matchup role as much especially if he's able to get back to form offensively but perhaps Lindy will have higher expectations all around for his forwards.

Either Cozens is sensitive to team production or he is driving their tendencies because it seems when he leans defensive, the team does and they all do the same offensively as well. Maybe I'm just overthinking simultaneous as correlation.

You need both a top and bottom 6 center that can handle matchup situations of needed. Its not an either or thing.

Donny never really went all in with him in this role. Largly due to him having kids as wingers.

EDIT: I’m excited to see Cozens used this way. I think he’ll rise to the challenge.

 

[joshjull]

@Gabrielor


I think the Boone Jenner stuff is wishful thinking from fans (Aside from it being unlikely he’s available). Posters are setting themselves up to be very frustrated.

Jenner hasn’t been anywhere near 3rd line minutes in years. The last 3 seasons he’s has averaged 20+mins overall (15th among NHL forwards) and roughly 15mins 5v5 (23rd). Thats an insane amount of minutes and WELL above 3rd line minutes.

Nothing about what Adams said he is targeting is anything near that level. He’s looking for a stereotypical bottom 6 center who is good at faceoffs, good defensively and PKs.

I would LOVE to acquire Jenner. But expecting to do so or get someone like him is not realistic based on Adams’ comments. Laughton, and players like him, are more likely targets. There is a wide chasm between those two centers and what you can expect from them. Which is why I think some fans will be very frustrated when we get Laughton or someone like him.

 

[TehDoak]

Thats going to be Cozens per one of Ruff’s recent interviews.

Which interview? Curious as to what he said.

 

[Matt Ress]

You need both a top and bottom 6 center that can handle matchup situations of needed. Its not an either or thing.

Donny never really went all in with him in this role. Largly due to him having kids as wingers.

EDIT: I’m excited to see Cozens used this way. I think he’ll rise to the challenge.

1. Yeah ok I was never arguing you only need one defensively minded center.

2. In 22/23 the entire team openly did not play defense and last season Quinn was injured most of it while JJ moved around the lineup quite a bit. Looking at Benson, he's one of the most defensive minded rookies in memory.

So, I think Cozens just failed in his role last year with a lack of coaching and direction as well.

 

[Gabrielor]

@Gabrielor

I'm under no illusions in thinking Jenner is available, but, you are right.

I'll be a mad f***ing man if Scott Laughton is their answer for 3C. He sucks at faceoffs.


There is a new idea I've pondered with zero proof or smoke. Tavares.

 

[Dubi Doo]

I still like him more than Murray or Botterill so the "in history" part... nah. Not even this team.

I despised Botts by the end of his tenure. Im not there with Adams. There's potenial with him. I know he should've added more last offseason to the forward core, but Im still peeved the players who he put his faith into repaid him by taking last offseason lightly.

Hopefully, he learned his lesson, and if any of the core players regret at next season's end how they approached this offseason- then get them the hell off the team.

So, coaching, management, and the players all deserve a ton of blame, but the locker cleanout interviews really left a sour taste in my mouth regarding the players.

 

[Nikolajs Sillers]

Maybe they sign Blueger if Canucks let him go?

 

[Dubi Doo]

Well after elimation Colorado fans are still saying they need a 2C.

What I saw overall he's not a surefire 2C so I think the crying and hand wringing about losing Mittlestadt needs to stop.

How is a 60 pt C who's strong defensively not a 2nd line player? He also had 9 pts in 11 games in the playoffs.

 

[dortt]

There is a lot of stupid in that list of names.

I still cannot believe when Murray expressed surprise at how good EROD looked when he finally got his call up after we wasted the whole year on Bailey and Baptiste.

Then, he was sent back to the minors to start the next year. The level of stupidity was off the charts. Did Murray not even notice EROD when he was scouting Eichel? They only played on the same line...

 

[sabremike]

The single biggest issue with this trade is that we traded a very good finished product for a work in progress that is going to take time to become a finished product (and may never become a finished product). Making a one step back to potentially take two steps forward a few seasons from now move when you are a dying franchise with a fanbase that has completely run out of patience and ABSOLUTELY MUST MAKE THE PLAYOFFS NEXT SEASON TO STOP THE BLEEDING is an act of malfeasance.

 

[Fjordy]

There is no logic here, even if the value is equal. Adams had Dahlin and Power in the top 4 as PMD (Ras is already more versatile, and Owen is just learning). And we probably needed to find guys like Slavin and Pesce (type of player) for them. Instead, Adams somehow gets another defenseman who moves the puck, isn't good defensively, and isn't physical. I just don't understand it. And it’s also unclear what to do now and how Lindy will be able to arrange all this.

 

[joshjull]

1. Yeah ok I was never arguing you only need one defensively minded center.

My bad then.

2. In 22/23 the entire team openly did not play defense and last season Quinn was injured most of it while JJ moved around the lineup quite a bit. Looking at Benson, he's one of the most defensive minded rookies in memory.

So, I think Cozens just failed in his role last year with a lack of coaching and direction as well.

I was talking about when the kid line was put together during the 22-23 season. The season before Cozens was periodically put up against some of the top centers.

In the 21-22 season it started when he was struggling a couple months in. Donny wanted to get him out of his head and stop overthinking things. Since playing in that role is instinctive for him. But he never truly used Cozens as a matchup guy. He just did this periodically. Which was frustrating after watching how well he reacted to the usage.

The next season (22-23) we had the top line and a line blender of sorts behind it to start the season. The young guys (Krebs/Peterka/Quinn) and Hino were rotating in and out of the lineup. Once the kid line was established late November there was no way that line would be used as a matchup line. That would be asking too much of such a young group.

This past season he split DZ faceoff duties about equally with Mitts, occasionally both were out together. But neither was really used in a direct matchup role.

 

[Matt Ress]

My bad then.

I was talking about when the kid line was put together during the 22-23 season. The season before Cozens was periodically put up against some of the top centers.

In the 21-22 season it started when he was struggling a couple months in. Donny wanted to get him out of his head and stop overthinking things. Since playing in that role is instinctive for him. But he never truly used Cozens as a matchup guy. He just did this periodically. Which was frustrating after watching how well he reacted to the usage.

The next season (22-23) we had the top line and a line blender of sorts behind it to start the season. The young guys (Krebs/Peterka/Quinn) and Hino were rotating in and out of the lineup. Once the kid line was established late November there was no way that line would be used as a matchup line. That would be asking too much of such a young group.

This past season he split DZ faceoff duties about equally with Mitts, occasionally both were out together. But neither was really used in a direct matchup role.

Ah gotcha. It didn't seem like DG was a great matchup guy. Maybe he hoped to overwhelm teams with waves of offense (no, seriously).

Either way I think Cozens could take on a top 6 matchup role with the right wings. Maybe a Quinn and Greenway combo that can play both ways. I don't trust Krebs in a C role so I'm hoping our new guy can bring bottom 6 offense at least. Probably way OT at this point

 

[Rowley Birkin]

I'm not hating on you for being positive about the trade either. I've posted before that I don't think any of them should have been traded, that they really needed the C depth until any prospect could supplant any of them (which imo is only Ostlund). There shouldn't have been an "odd man out", but if we needed a different type of C, it was for Thompson, not Mitts. Mitts is clearly the smartest of the three.

I don't believe in Krebs. I don't believe Byram adds what the D-corps lacks. There's a chance Ruff can revamp the entire unit and improve how the team defends, so just maybe there is a net gain regardless of how defensively lacking Byram is (and he is). But I don't have any confidence in KA being able to make a savvy trade to replace Mitts. He's going to hope on prospects, and if he tries otherwise I'm actually afraid of the result because he hasn't actually made a good trade that improved the team immediately.

I don't think it is practical or realistic to have three offensively-focused centres on the roster, all making circa $7m/per long term. It's not like Adams doesn't have other 'top six' forwards to pay - Peterka, Quinn, Benson & Tuch will all be due substantial raises over the next season or two. And pretty much everyone is agreed that we need to add a legit defensive '3C' - these players do not come cheaply either. Adams has to cut his cloth accordingly. So yes - there does have to be an odd man out on this occasion. Just as there will need to be odd man/men out in terms of the current group of prospects.

You can argue that TT should have been the guy to be traded & Mitts the guy to be extended. You're welcome to have that opinion - even though I would strongly disagree with it. But what you can't argue with is that once Adams signed TT... your idea that he would then turn around one year later, trade TT in order to extend Mitts... this is completely unrealistic. The TT/Cozens deals were a clear statement of intent on Adams' part. His lack of action when it came to extending Mitts in similar fashion was further proof if you needed it.

I will repeat - Adams needs to acquire another '3C' but this is not going to be a direct 'like for like' Mitts replacement. More to the point - it doesn't & shouldn't NEED to be.

I will repeat again - i think you are heavily under valuing Byram & what he brings to this group. I can't really help you with that.

I also think you are being hysterical in terms of your assessment of Adams. The faults i have with him are more about his one dimensional draft choices (which he seems to be moving away from if last year's draft is an indication) and the moves he has NOT made. When he's actually pulled the trigger I've generally liked what he's done.

That type of 3C would not have prevented us from keeping Mitts. It wasn't an either or. Cozens, Thompson or Mitts at 1st or 2nd line winger at times would still be worth around 7 million and give the added versatility of playing center when there is injury or a need of a lineup change.

If there was a need to push a forward out due to cap reasons, it should not have been one of the only forwards on the team that is strong on the forecheck and defensively responsible.

Continuing from above - you do realise that a team can only have a finite number of players? Particularly ones which are high priced? If your arguement shifts to utilising Mitts as a 'top 6' winger - which it would do if you are acquiring a defensively responsible '3C' you're going to have to move on from other guys instead - I've listed some above. Many of which are Adams' own acquisitions as opposed to guys he inherited.

Mitts was an effective forward anywhere in the top 6/top 9. He wasn’t just a center. He also spent about a seasons worth of time over the last two seasons as our #1 center. First filling in for an injured Tage at the end of last season and then stepping up for an injured Tage/struggling Cozens for the bulk of this season. There was certainly a place for him on the roster had they kept him.

I don’t know if it was your intent, but you seem to be dismissing his loss as something easily replaced by the talent in the system. We have no one who can step up as the #1 center anytime soon. Nor will the type of center we acquire this offseason likely be the type capable of that. Hopefully it won’t matter.

I find it ironic when posters argue there wasn’t a spot for Mitts due to Tage/Cozens. Yet they miss the parallel situation with Byram due to Dahlin/Power. It’s not that you can’t or shouldn’t have either player. It’s just that the situations aren’t that common. So it’s pretty weird to see an argument using depth/future contract against Mitts while praising the addition of Byram. Who is in a similar situation at a different position.

We needed a better defensive dman than Joker in the top 4. Preferably one with size, physicality and experience would be good too. Basically an experienced Sammy with hopefully better durability. Teams rarely have dman of Dahlin’s level, let alone another one with that upside (Power). It’s pretty hard to argue we had a need for the type of dman Byram is.

The point of the above is that there are legit hockey reasons to have an issue with this trade. That said………

I get the logic behind the trade and it was fair value. Adams thinks he’s rounded out his top 4 dmen by adding Byram. I’m skeptical he’s the answer but I know he’s a very talent kid with a lot of upside. I’m going to wait for the roster building to play out as well as what Lindy does before making any final judgement on the trade. I’m keeping an open mind.

You're another poster i highly respect Josh , and have done for a long time.

You don't need to patronise me here though. I know/fully appreciate what Mitts brought & have in more recent times been one of his bigger supporters on this forum. Not to the extent you are - but probably more than most.

Many of your points are answered in the above response to @Sabresfansince1980. Most notably that Mitts doesn't need to be & won't be replaced 'like for like' . I think you are guilty of over emphasising his importance to the team to be honest.

I would argue that having Byram IS certainly more valuable when you consider the array of top 6/top 9 forward players/prospects in the system compared to what we have on the back end. No - none of these players are a carbon copy of Mitts - and yes - we do have Dahlin/Power - but after that it's embarrassingly bare by comparison. We have needed to make a F for D 'hockey trade' of this type for a long time. Adams even admitted that himself. The only surprise is that we got a player like Byram when most people expected/demanded more of a right shot shut down type. Adams' well documented interest in Chychrun should have given people clues... I really like it - but i probably value the transition game more than most.

Last paragraph is great & this is the outlook the haters need to take.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

I get that they said they wanted a top 4 defenseman. I also see that they now don't have a viable replacement if there is an injury in either of their top lines OR if they need to shake that up like was needed at points this season. They are now in need of a center.

A different type of centre.

Having a D-first '3C' & the ability to roll Dahlin/Byram/Power on D is a lot more enticing to me than the status quo which has so far delivered nothing.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

This team has been so inept of 2way talent for so long that we have now built Casey into some irreplaceable God lol. It was a weird trade and didn;t seem to fit our needs as many have echoed but the way people get riled up over this is ridiculous. I had absolutely no interest in signing Casey to potentially a 7 million dollar contract which might have been what it took.

Recency bias is also crazy here. Now Tage and Cozens will never rebound (UNDER A NEW COACH) after injury plagued years and we need Casey like crazy even though before many were bashing Casey and pumping those guys up.

Mitts was a bright spot the last 1.5 years for sure and Byram is redundant all that is valid. I'm gonna guess though that in 10 years when Casey ends up a low end Duchene/Ryjo type this deal won't be nearly as important as you guys all think. This has losing stafford or roy written all over it to me. That being said if Byram stays healthy (huge IF) he could be a game breaking dman (albeit admittedly not what we needed). Mehhhh I'm not losing sleep over the trade....

I agree with the premise of your post - but Byram has a pretty good shot of being a game breaking type of player. It's not a huge long shot like you're making it out to be. And the prospect of rolling him along with Dahlin/Power is something that i think is really being lost on people. The three are still only 1/2 of the D as a whole. It's not like they can't add three more complimentary D-first or physical players to that group.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

@Gabrielor


I think the Boone Jenner stuff is wishful thinking from fans (Aside from it being unlikely he’s available). Posters are setting themselves up to be very frustrated.

Jenner hasn’t been anywhere near 3rd line minutes in years. The last 3 seasons he’s has averaged 20+mins overall (15th among NHL forwards) and roughly 15mins 5v5 (23rd). Thats an insane amount of minutes and WELL above 3rd line minutes.

Nothing about what Adams said he is targeting is anything near that level. He’s looking for a stereotypical bottom 6 center who is good at faceoffs, good defensively and PKs.

I would LOVE to acquire Jenner. But expecting to do so or get someone like him is not realistic based on Adams’ comments. Laughton, and players like him, are more likely targets. There is a wide chasm between those two centers and what you can expect from them. Which is why I think some fans will be very frustrated when we get Laughton or someone like him.

Jenner isn't happening for a number of reasons. And I'm not saying you are wrong when you suggest Adams will target more of a low end prototypical '4C' as opposed to what most of us are hoping for.

But Adams has more tradable assets than any other GM in the league to offer teams. He also has highly rated prospects that he'll need to move on from sooner than later.... He can afford to 'over pay' in this situation.

If he does go the route you're suggesting - it will absolutely be by choice rather than necessity.

I think what they ultimately think of Krebs will have a huge bearing. It will be interesting to see what type of extension he gets, assuming that happens before any move for another centre....

 

[Rowley Birkin]

There is no logic here, even if the value is equal. Adams had Dahlin and Power in the top 4 as PMD (Ras is already more versatile, and Owen is just learning). And we probably needed to find guys like Slavin and Pesce (type of player) for them. Instead, Adams somehow gets another defenseman who moves the puck, isn't good defensively, and isn't physical. I just don't understand it. And it’s also unclear what to do now and how Lindy will be able to arrange all this.

You either pair Byram with Dahlin, or you roll three pairs each with a more prototypical stay at home partner.

Or you give yourself the flexibility to do both...

 

[DJN21]

I agree with the premise of your post - but Byram has a pretty good shot of being a game breaking type of player. It's not a huge long shot like you're making it out to be. And the prospect of rolling him along with Dahlin/Power is something that i think is really being lost on people. The three are still only 1/2 of the D as a whole. It's not like they can't add three more complimentary D-first or physical players to that group.

I think you misread or I misspoke. I entirely agree he can be a game breaker. Id trade a meh 50-60 point center whose defensive acumen is overblown for that chance if I were adams too

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

I also think you are being hysterical in terms of your assessment of Adams. The faults i have with him are more about his one dimensional draft choices (which he seems to be moving away from if last year's draft is an indication) and the moves he has NOT made. When he's actually pulled the trigger I've generally liked what he's done.

I'll agree to disagree on the values of Mitts/Byram, but I'm not sure what was "hysterical" about what I posted about KA. Maybe you're reading more into it, but all I think of KA is that he's relied on his scouting dept to hoard prospects and hope they fill roster holes, but has failed or held back in making "win-now" type trades. I'm not sure he has the eye for what the roster needs. He's made a few decent trades avoiding disaster in potentially losing Eichel and Reinhart for nickels, and marginally improving the D-corps over what had been a dumpster fire. He hasn't been able to make a next-step trade yet. He has yet to make a move that shapes the roster more into what will be needed to win a playoff series (or two). I still see not only a team that will barely make it with decent coaching, but a team that is constructed to get run over if they ever make it. They're on a path to be the Maple Leafs, and that's really tough to take.

 

[Fjordy]

You either pair Byram with Dahlin, or you roll three pairs each with a more prototypical stay at home partner.

Or you give yourself the flexibility to do both...

Then this is a stupid deal if Byram plays on the third pair for a limited ice-time of minutes and does not see PP. And if he plays with Dahlin, I’m not sure that it will benefit Ras, rather the opposite. He will have to play defense himself and also cover Byram, he will be torn. It would be much better if a different type of player (Slavin type) played together with Dahlin, then we would have an excellent first pair of defense. Who played with Hamilton in Lindy's Jersey? It seems to be Siegenthaler, who is just Slavin’s type and it seems to have worked.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

I'll agree to disagree on the values of Mitts/Byram, but I'm not sure what was "hysterical" about what I posted about KA. Maybe you're reading more into it, but all I think of KA is that he's relied on his scouting dept to hoard prospects and hope they fill roster holes, but has failed or held back in making "win-now" type trades. I'm not sure he has the eye for what the roster needs. He's made a few decent trades avoiding disaster in potentially losing Eichel and Reinhart for nickels, and marginally improving the D-corps over what had been a dumpster fire. He hasn't been able to make a next-step trade yet. He has yet to make a move that shapes the roster more into what will be needed to win a playoff series (or two). I still see not only a team that will barely make it with decent coaching, but a team that is constructed to get run over if they ever make it. They're on a path to be the Maple Leafs, and that's really tough to take.

Re bolded - as i said - the moves he HASN'T made have been my biggest frustration. But he seems to be turning the corner in that regard. I've liked / agreed with a lot of what he's been saying in recent pressers/interviews. Obviously he needs to follow through on that with actions this offseason but this trade was a very good start.

Then this is a stupid deal if Byram plays on the third pair for a limited ice-time of minutes and does not see PP. And if he plays with Dahlin, I’m not sure that it will benefit Ras, rather the opposite. He will have to play defense himself and also cover Byram, he will be torn. It would be much better if a different type of player (Slavin type) played together with Dahlin, then we would have an excellent first pair of defense. Who played with Hamilton in Lindy's Jersey? It seems to be Siegenthaler, who is just Slavin’s type and it seems to have worked.

Where did I say that Byram should play on the 'third pair' or play very limited minutes?

We're in the very fortunate position to be able to roll all three guys however Lindy sees fit. It doesn't mean that one of them has to be given limited ice time in order to make that work.

I don't really care who plays with Hamilton in NJ because we're a different team.

Right now i think you just have to move on from Jokiharju/Bryson & add a physical bottom pair type. Do that and i think the makeup of the group could be great.