Confirmed with Link: Casey Mittelstadt traded to COL for D Bo Byram. Straight up.

[Fjordy]

Re bolded - as i said - the moves he HASN'T made have been my biggest frustration. But he seems to be turning the corner in that regard. I've liked / agreed with a lot of what he's been saying in recent pressers/interviews. Obviously he needs to follow through on that with actions this offseason but this trade was a very good start.


Where did I say that Byram should play on the 'third pair' or play very limited minutes?

We're in the very fortunate position to be able to roll all three guys however Lindy sees fit. It doesn't mean that one of them has to be given limited ice time in order to make that work.

I don't really care who plays with Hamilton in NJ because we're a different team.

Right now i think you just have to move on from Jokiharju/Bryson & add a physical bottom pair type. Do that and i think the makeup of the group could be great.

Because if Byram doesn't play with Dahlin and Power plays on the second pairing (not with Byram), then he will be on the third pairing with Clifton. Like I said, just not the type of player that was needed. With Dahlin and Power on the team, another player was needed.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

Because if Byram doesn't play with Dahlin and Power plays on the second pairing (not with Byram), then he will be on the third pairing with Clifton. Like I said, just not the type of player that was needed. With Dahlin and Power on the team, another player was needed.

As i keep saying - i don't think they need to be so regimented with their deployment as you are making out. Although i do agree that having stable pairs is mostly beneficial - i can easily see a scenario where you have Dahlin, Power, Byram, Samuelsson, Clifton & another D-first guy where each gets appropriate usage. With Johnson being first call up.

At this point my only concern is that they do move on from both Jokiharju/Bryson & trade for/sign someone better suited to a D-first role, who ideally brings an element of physicality / toughness. That sixth guy doesn't need to be a minute eater by any means, he shouldn't be a difficult player to acquire.

 

[Tijuana Donkey Show]

It’s still mostly that they’re looking at the potential for how he played in the finals a couple years ago. That’s a really appealing mismatch to have. Take a look at a couple of teams that are struggling and how hard it is for them to get out of their own zone cleanly: Winnipeg, and to a lesser extent, both Toronto and Boston. Or how the Oilers have struggled at times, but they have the ringer who is a one-man breakout machine in McDavid.

They have three really strong, breakout candidates, both with their mobility or via passing. It should allow them to be able to transition the puck in excellent fashion.

Should. I did say should.

This is actually one of my bigger head scratchers of the trade. If Byrum hits this level of potential that everybody is talking about, WTF is the plan? Pay him $10M per? And Power $8M? And Dahlin $11M?

If we vaguely talk about the vision of this team; young kids, homegrown, build from within, the potential of Cozens, or Byrum, or whoever, I am all in.

But you start getting into the nitty gritty of replacing your home grown best center with likely somebody from your prospect pool who MIGHT have Benson level production if we are lucky. And in return we get a defensemen that we actually cannot afford if he reaches the level that everybody is hoping he does...then I have to wonder WTF we are doing?

 

[Tijuana Donkey Show]

You're certainly one of the better regular posters, who I've tended to agree with more often than not with over the years. So I'll just say that on this occasion I think this is a terrible take.

Adams is not going to trade either TT/Cozens so soon after extending them in the manner that he did. Adams undoubtedly made those decisions with Mitts clearly in the picture... Mitts was always going to be the odd man out

TT/Cozens are our guys & i think it's fickle at best to describe them as you have done in this post.

Nobody has said 'we don't need three pretty good centres' but it's clear that we do need a different type of player to Mitts. It is possible that Krebs could develop into the guy we want him to be - i haven't completely given up on him - but i think at this point we do add someone from outside the organisation. We have the biggest war chest in the league in terms of tradable assets - i have at times been as frustrated as anyone with Adams - but i truly believe that he's on the right path & have loved everything he has said in recent presses. I think he's going to back his words up with actions this offseason. At least wait until the season starts before criticising him for not making moves.

To the two bolded:

1. I think this where some posters get lost. You are talking about what GMKA will and won't do. He won't move Tage/Cozens because he just extended them and has put all his chips/faith behind them. You are correct. @Sabresfansince1980 is saying that that is a dumb plan because of either the specific player or because of their extensions. I agree with both of you.

2. I don't think it is clear at all that the Sabres need less players like Casey Mittelstadt. In fact I think the very opposite is true. This team needs more players like him. He was our best center, one of our best 2 way forwards, and one of the only players to play hard night in and night out. If we could clone Mitts and get him back this roster could use one or two more to play literally any position from 1C to 4W, to PK, to PP.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

This is actually one of my bigger head scratchers of the trade. If Byrum hits this level of potential that everybody is talking about, WTF is the plan? Pay him $10M per? And Power $8M? And Dahlin $11M?

If we vaguely talk about the vision of this team; young kids, homegrown, build from within, the potential of Cozens, or Byrum, or whoever, I am all in.

But you start getting into the nitty gritty of replacing your home grown best center with likely somebody from your prospect pool who MIGHT have Benson level production if we are lucky. And in return we get a defensemen that we actually cannot afford if he reaches the level that everybody is hoping he does...then I have to wonder WTF we are doing?

Once he's ready for a payday, he'll be traded for someone younger who's still developing just like Casey was.

 

[Chainshot]

Once he's ready for a payday, he'll be traded for someone younger who's still developing just like Casey was.

Seems likely.

They also have a built-in suppression to his payroll at the moment - he's unlikely to unseat Dahlin on PP1. Even if he's getting PP2 time or rotated in as a 2nd defenseman on PP1 like they did (which would buck the trends of the entire league), he's not going to drive a lot of additional scoring there. That could put a drag on his eventual contract value.

 

[Butt Ox]

Seems likely.

They also have a built-in suppression to his payroll at the moment - he's unlikely to unseat Dahlin on PP1. Even if he's getting PP2 time or rotated in as a 2nd defenseman on PP1 like they did (which would buck the trends of the entire league), he's not going to drive a lot of additional scoring there. That could put a drag on his eventual contract value.

Kind of moot when the plan is to run two five fwd units. Embrace the familiar

 

[Chainshot]

Kind of moot when the plan is to run two five fwd units. Embrace the familiar

Brandon Biro, NHL pointman.

 

[Butt Ox]

Brandon Biro, NHL pointman.

I've seen that movie. The popcorn was good. The picture show itself wasn't my bag.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Seems likely.

They also have a built-in suppression to his payroll at the moment - he's unlikely to unseat Dahlin on PP1. Even if he's getting PP2 time or rotated in as a 2nd defenseman on PP1 like they did (which would buck the trends of the entire league), he's not going to drive a lot of additional scoring there. That could put a drag on his eventual contract value.

If he doesn't get PP time, it will be the same result because he'll ask for a trade around the same time as he'd be traded in the other scenario.

 

[Chainshot]

If he doesn't get PP time, it will be the same result because he'll ask for a trade around the same time as he'd be traded in the other scenario.

Maybe. I wonder if his dudebro's help ease him into Buffalo life but if he wants PP time, he has to outproduce two 1OA's on his own team for that role.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

Once he's ready for a payday, he'll be traded for someone younger who's still developing just like Casey was.

He's only got one year left. He's eligible for an extension as soon as the summer. I'd hope the plan would be to get that done sooner than later....

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

He's only got one year left. He's eligible for an extension as soon as the summer. I'd hope the plan would be to get that done sooner than later....

I'm assuming he'll get a bridge deal and am referring to the deal after that one, which would buy UFA years.

Maybe. I wonder if his dudebro's help ease him into Buffalo life but if he wants PP time, he has to outproduce two 1OA's on his own team for that role.

If he develops the way everyone thinks he will, Buffalo would be the only team that wouldn't be able to use him on the PP since no other teams has two #1 OA picks on the same blueline in front of him. The only way Buffalo keeps him is to pay him more than his numbers are worth.

Either way, it doesn't make sense to collect 3 extremely expensive blueliners, at the expense of other parts of the roster -- it's the defense version of Toronto roster construction.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

I'm assuming he'll get a bridge deal and am referring to the deal after that one, which would buy UFA years.

If he develops the way everyone thinks he will, Buffalo would be the only team that wouldn't be able to use him on the PP since no other teams has two #1 OA picks on the same blueline in front of him. The only way Buffalo keeps him is to pay him more than his numbers are worth.

Either way, it doesn't make sense to collect 3 extremely expensive blueliners, at the expense of other parts of the roster -- it's the defense version of Toronto roster construction.

First point - maybe, maybe not. Adams has had a tendancy to get guys he sees as long term pieces locked up though... Hard to think that he doesn't see Byram as one.

Second point - that's certainly not true. This team has a number of high quality prime age forwards who are either already locked up long term or soon will be when they are eligible for extension. The most important of which are already locked into below market value deals in TT/Cozens. Plus we have a dearth of highly rated forward prospects - literally more than Adams knows what to do with. That's completely different to Toronto's blue line situation.

What we have built up front will allow Adams flexibility to spend a bit extra on our blue line. Which is where the smart money should be spent anyway.

 

[Ygo]

First point - maybe, maybe not. Adams has had a tendancy to get guys he sees as long term pieces locked up though... Hard to think that he doesn't see Byram as one.

Second point - that's certainly not true. This team has a number of high quality prime age forwards who are either already locked up long term or soon will be when they are eligible for extension. The most important of which are already locked into below market value deals in TT/Cozens. Plus we have a dearth of highly rated forward prospects - literally more than Adams knows what to do with. That's completely different to Toronto's blue line situation.

What we have built up front will allow Adams flexibility to spend a bit extra on our blue line. Which is where the smart money should be spent anyway.

True, but either way, you have someone making $8-$11M who won't be on this ice if your team needs a goal in the last minute of play. For now, there is nothing to complain about, they aren't good so accumulate good players, but if you have 3 D making a sizable portion of the cap, know that one is not playing on the last shift of an important game. Good teams probably care about that.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

First point - maybe, maybe not. Adams has had a tendancy to get guys he sees as long term pieces locked up though... Hard to think that he doesn't see Byram as one.

Second point - that's certainly not true. This team has a number of high quality prime age forwards who are either already locked up long term or soon will be when they are eligible for extension. The most important of which are already locked into below market value deals in TT/Cozens. Plus we have a dearth of highly rated forward prospects - literally more than Adams knows what to do with. That's completely different to Toronto's blue line situation.

What we have built up front will allow Adams flexibility to spend a bit extra on our blue line. Which is where the smart money should be spent anyway.

I don't think you understood my point -- I'm not comparing our defense to Toronto's.

I also don't think you have looked at the 4-year outlook of Buffalo's cap situation. Once you give contracts to Quinn, Peterka, UPL, Levi, Tuch, et al -- even at discounts to what I think they're worth -- you don't have enough space to sign Byram. So you have to sell off vet forwards and rely on rookie deals at forward to squeeze in 3 extremely expensive defensemen. I don't think it's agreat way to operate.

I know you'll say that Adams will somehow magically find a way to make it all work, but unless you crunch the 4-year numbers numbers yourself, I don't think you're appreciating how impossible that is.

 

[Aladyyn]

Then this is a stupid deal if Byram plays on the third pair for a limited ice-time of minutes and does not see PP. And if he plays with Dahlin, I’m not sure that it will benefit Ras, rather the opposite. He will have to play defense himself and also cover Byram, he will be torn. It would be much better if a different type of player (Slavin type) played together with Dahlin, then we would have an excellent first pair of defense. Who played with Hamilton in Lindy's Jersey? It seems to be Siegenthaler, who is just Slavin’s type and it seems to have worked.

The players who can play top pairing minutes and are better than Dahlin defensively can be counted on your fingers and we're not getting any of them on this team. He'll always be the defensive conscience of his pairing and that's fine, he is that good.

 

[Fjordy]

The players who can play top pairing minutes and are better than Dahlin defensively can be counted on your fingers and we're not getting any of them on this team. He'll always be the defensive conscience of his pairing and that's fine, he is that good.

Just not sure he needs a partner like Byram or Power, it might be fun on offense but not sure it would be good on defense, I don't yet understand what the pairings will look like and if there will be more trades on defense.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

I don't think you understood my point -- I'm not comparing our defense to Toronto's.

I also don't think you have looked at the 4-year outlook of Buffalo's cap situation. Once you give contracts to Quinn, Peterka, UPL, Levi, Tuch, et al -- even at discounts to what I think they're worth -- you don't have enough space to sign Byram. So you have to sell off vet forwards and rely on rookie deals at forward to squeeze in 3 extremely expensive defensemen. I don't think it's agreat way to operate.

I know you'll say that Adams will somehow magically find a way to make it all work, but unless you crunch the 4-year numbers numbers yourself, I don't think you're appreciating how impossible that is.

I sound like a broken record here, but KA is about to have a 33 mil D-corps at the VERY LEAST. That's if he trades Joker and goes with a #6 and #7 guy at league min. If he re-signs Byram for close to 5 mil (probably more, unless he totally stinks next season), and re-signs Joker or acquires a vet worth a damn, the D-corps will be around 36-37 mil and blow away any other team's D-corps cap hit. That's a crazy skewed % of cap for a D-corps that can't compete with a heavy playoff caliber forecheck. It's also crazy considering how incomplete the FW group is. I just can't wrap my head around whatever KA is thinking about for the next several years.

 

[Aladyyn]

More and more teams are stacking their best 5-man units and heavily relying on them... I think Power-Dahlin being a staple is a lot more likely than most people believe, an in that case having Byram would be crucial to making everything work.

 

[toddkaz]

Can we flip Byram for Necas?

 

[Beerz]

Can we flip Byram for Necas?

Carolina doesn't need more LHD ..

Orlov, Slavin , Skjei (UFA) and Nickishin on the way

 

[Rowley Birkin]

True, but either way, you have someone making $8-$11M who won't be on this ice if your team needs a goal in the last minute of play. For now, there is nothing to complain about, they aren't good so accumulate good players, but if you have 3 D making a sizable portion of the cap, know that one is not playing on the last shift of an important game. Good teams probably care about that.

That seems like a very specific scenario to be worried about. What about the ability to roll either 1/3 or 2/3 of them for the other 59 minutes of the game? Doesn't that matter to you?

I don't think you understood my point -- I'm not comparing our defense to Toronto's.

I also don't think you have looked at the 4-year outlook of Buffalo's cap situation. Once you give contracts to Quinn, Peterka, UPL, Levi, Tuch, et al -- even at discounts to what I think they're worth -- you don't have enough space to sign Byram. So you have to sell off vet forwards and rely on rookie deals at forward to squeeze in 3 extremely expensive defensemen. I don't think it's agreat way to operate.

I know you'll say that Adams will somehow magically find a way to make it all work, but unless you crunch the 4-year numbers numbers yourself, I don't think you're appreciating how impossible that is.

I did understand your point. You were trying to compare Toronto's weak blue line to our group of forwards - using the arguement that they have four highly paid forwards & that we'll somehow end up in the same situation but reversed. Which is totally inaccurate.

And you don't have to patronise me. I'm as aware of cap implications as anyone can be, based on the evidence i see posted on this forum on a regular basis. None of us know exactly where the cap will be in four years time - so there is obviously a lot of projection involved.

Firstly - i don't think Byram is a $10m/per player. I think a long term extension for him will come in at quite a bit less than that.

Secondly - you listed three forwards in addition to TT/Cozens who are already signed - not to mention the likes of Benson, Kulich, Savoie, Rosen etc. in the pipeline. If you are worried about paying your 7/8/9th forwards or backup goalie before paying your #3D - we're quite simply never going to agree on this as we have wildly different views regarding how a roster should be constructed.

But most importantly - i really don't think Adams makes this trade without viewing Byram as a long term piece. We always knew he was going to make a big move for a top 4 D who fit in with the rest of the core. Be it Chychrun or whoever else he's been heavily linked to. Byram is his guy.

 

[Panthaz89]

This is actually one of my bigger head scratchers of the trade. If Byrum hits this level of potential that everybody is talking about, WTF is the plan? Pay him $10M per? And Power $8M? And Dahlin $11M?

If we vaguely talk about the vision of this team; young kids, homegrown, build from within, the potential of Cozens, or Byrum, or whoever, I am all in.

But you start getting into the nitty gritty of replacing your home grown best center with likely somebody from your prospect pool who MIGHT have Benson level production if we are lucky. And in return we get a defensemen that we actually cannot afford if he reaches the level that everybody is hoping he does...then I have to wonder WTF we are doing?

I don't get what's wrong with paying excellent defenseman like other teams against the cap you try to work your way around it with trades or accept a weakness that every team has somewhere typically. This idea that we can only play 2 defenseman on our PP units isn't really a big deal most of the game is played at even strength. Also with our personnel you can justify using 2 D-man on one of your PP units it isn't a crime to use 2 of them. Same deal with whining about paying a 3rd center another big deal i'm not sure Byram is going to be getting as much as people think.

 

[Satanphonehome]

I remember the Josi Subban Ekholm Ellis Preds very well.

Not seeing tremendous issue with Pietrangelo Theodore Hanifin.

People act like a 3rd D doesn’t play 20+ minutes a night and like Power and Byram won’t get better at defence just like Dahlin did.

They ignore how defence men actually are deployed and lock them into a rigid 6 R/L hierarchy.

But mostly they look past the fact that if Byram turns into an $8M defenceman that actually a good problem to have. And if he doesn’t the cap issue is moot.

Let’s wait for the players to get good before we start overpaying them.